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'Lo all. I've been playing Dogs of War for quite a while now (bizarrely, they were my first fantasy army) and fancied a change. What with my appeal for old armies and how pretty their books are I've gone for Beasts of Chaos, and am already far too excited.
So, what can people recommend for an army designed primarily around Beastherds and ambushing? I know it's unreliable, but it'd be interesting to try out. I have a LOT of Ironguts in my Dogs army, so am staying away from the Minotaur/Ogre/Troll side of things (That and I hate the Minotaur models... Trolls look nice though, might give a few a try).
I was thinking I'd need warhounds, a chariot or two to slam in and help some beast attacks, maybe Centigors (despite that price *shudders*), some Slaaneshi spawn for high-speed ass-whuppin', and possibly a Bestigor unit. Also the Staff of Wild Call Spell and another shaman with lore of beasts trying to get the Wild Hunt, to ensure some quick charges after emerging.
I also have Ricco's Republican Guard (big unit o' pikemen) that would take up a Special slot if I put them in, and of course Ironguts, so would they, or any other Dog of War be useful to use here?
Thanks in advance!
As I'm very new to Beasts myself, I'll offer the small, hard fruits of my un-ripened knowledge...In my experience in Fantasy as a whole, a pair of chariots are worth a lot more than two... if that makes sense. While one chariot is a generally an annoyance, something that will strip a rank bonus off a unit and keep it there for a few turns before it becomes overwhelmed, two chariots running together are a genuine threat and something your opponent will have to react to. Points allowing, I'd advocate always using chariots in pairs.I was thinking I'd need warhounds, a chariot or two to slam in and help some beast attacks,You'll get more Gor bodies in a herd box than you'll know what to do with... buy up a box of Glade Riders and with a little cutting you can make yourself a unit of Centigor that (in my opinion) look better than the GW models and cost you a lot less.maybe Centigors (despite that price *shudders*),Yup. Slaanesh Spawn is how I'd spend my rare slots.some Slaaneshi spawn for high-speed ass-whuppin',Taking the staff and a powerstone together seems to be a pretty standard combo so far as I can tell. I'd always want to include it in 2k+ games.Also the Staff of Wild Call SpellI hate that spell personally.Wild Hunt, to ensure some quick charges after emerging.
Your cavalry should be able to get the charge off on infantry with their superior movenet so long as you're okay with guessing ranges. If you're trying to charge something else that moves quickly, chances are you'll be moving into their charge range for the spell to be effective and all it takes then is a scroll or failed cast and you're suddenly the one being charged. At best, it's unnessesary, at worst it's a huge risk.
But that's me.
Last edited by Tak; August 4th, 2009 at 00:02.
Well, I was thinking the Wild Hunt (assuming that's the beast spell that gives you a free charge) mainly due to the same reasons as the staff of Darkoth, to charge immediately after arriving via ambush - but does it only work on cavalry and the like? In which case, I may contemplate the version the lore of Shadows has....
Ahh, I think that's where the confusion is.
The spell in the magic stave is "The Wild Call" and can be cast on Beast Herds and Warhounds.
The spell in the Lord of Beasts is "The Wolf Hunts" and can be cast on Cavalry and Chariots.
It's the latter spell that I don't rate, The Wild Call is golden when you factor in Herds' skirmish ability. You can nip round a flank so you're safe from being charged yourself if the spell fails.
If your going fo a primarily ambushing army, IMO Khazrak should be your first choice on unit.
He allows all of the units, given that they already can, to ambush, instead of just half, and those ambushers entering play within 12" of his entry point use his Ld for testing for the scatter.
He increases the Ld of Warhounds to 6 (YAY).
He has a 2+ armour save, Mag. Res. (1) and any spells that target him give him +1 strength, even if dispelled.
It may just be me, but i think that this specific character a great choice.
I do have my eye on Khazrak, though a fellow beast player in my shop (that's right, there's more than one of us!) has him, and another (we must account for all the Beast players in Wales) has Morgor and is planning the massed Spawn spam, so I wouldn't feel right really. I did however notice that Gorthor has the Ambush rule, and is deployed with his chariot. As far as I can tell, this would mean he can ambush in the thing. This a reasonable idea? Plus, it'd be cool to have all the characters...
As an aside here's a dream list, of sorts. I'm not near the book right now, so it's rough, but let us know what you think:
Beastlord w/Chaos armour, Shield, Axes of Khorgor, Dark Heart, Mark of Undivided
Wargor w/Battle standard, Mark of Tzeentch, Dispel scroll, Goretooth
Shaman w/Mark of Slaanesh, Staff of Darkoth, Dispel scroll
Shaman w/Dispel Scroll, Dispel Scroll
Beastherd w/8 Ungors, 11 Gors, Full command
Bestigors w/ Full command, Mark of Slaanesh
Minotaurs w/Great Weapons, Standard, Mark of Tzeentch
Slaanesh Spawn x 2.
Would this be viable, or a big mistake? It's what I'm aiming for.
IMO that army could do very well, as you have a reasonable amount of magic, lots of scrolls, and those bestigors, that are immune to psychology, could hurt if used well.
For ambushing, I think the general has to be on the table to sound the Bray Horn, so Gorthor would not be able to ambush himself. However, he is still a viable character.
Realies teh impotance of proof raeding evrything yuo publish
I think you're wasting some points. First you want your main herds to total 21 so it will take 6 deaths to cause a panic. Remember our leadership sucks. You want to have more ungors that gors. I usually roll out with 7 or 8 gors and 14 or 13 ungors.
If you're going to do ambushing... again our leadership sucks. I ambush with herds of 5x5 with a champ. With Ld 7 you have about a 55% chance to show up where you want to. To make up for this, I urge more small herds. 5 ungors, 5 gors and a champ will set you back 75 pts. I typically have 3 or 4. If 1 of them shows up behind a war machine and knock it out great. But the absolute best thing about them is your opponent will be worried about them.
More than once I've had someone get so flustered in his movement phase that, because they don't know where those guys are going to pop out, they have made serious errors in movement and deployment and therefor set me up to do some real damage. Then I've gotten so wrapped up in where I'm going to flank charge next I'd for get to sound the horn and gone an entire game without the ambush.
I don't like Bestigor. I feel they are a bit of a point sink and they don't really do what they should do. I would rather spend the points for them on an extra set of minos, spawns, or a giant.
Bad news on your minos they have to be the same mark as your general or no mark at all... unless I'm confusing them with another unit. I feel it's pretty useless to give minos a standard or make one a champ. Use them with one of your big herds, which should have a full command. The champ is to expensive for an extra attack.
But this is how I've learned to play my army. You might want to play it totally differently, or it might just be a totally different play style than mine. Play around see what you like, don't like, go on from there.
Most importantly this is a hard army to master, not the hardest, but it's a tactical army and movement is your biggest weapon. Have fun.
/end forcing of personal opinion on others as if it were fact.
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Well, I've nabbed me a Khazrak from a fellow player who's quitting, so looks like the mega-ambush list will raise it's ugly head.
@Burnanation: Curses, you're correct - the Minotaurs do need the same mark as the general. Man, I hate all this marks business. Hope the new book comes soon and puts an end to it all. Even if the Mark of Khorne becomes naff.
The main reason for the Minotaurs was purely to have the Tzeentchian Battle Standard Bearer. Coming from Dogs of War, the idea of not having one is strange to me. So figured if I have to have one with the stupid old 'You can't take anything ever because you're carrying a big flag' restriction, I might as well make him useful. That, and hatred is always nice. I also gave them a standard because during my experience with Ogre Kingdom Ogres, the standard has always been worth it - gotta break 'em on the charge. Every little helps. I never take a champ though on Minotaurs. Didn't do it on Ogres, not doing it on these. Especially seeing as one bloke can tie him up in a challenge and stop me reducing the enemy unit to having less than me (thus letting me outnumber with a fear causer).
I might therefore fit one of the Chariots up with the Mark of Tzeentch to allow the character, and just leave the Minotaurs as they are. Or field some Ogre Ironguts, they're just freaking awesome.
Other Chariot will have mark of Khorne - since reading the FAQ I've been a very happy little bunny.
The Bestigors I'm going with because I figured having a big unit with ranks, strength and above-average movement would be useful. With Dogs I had the pikemen and paymaster bodyguard, these guys are nasty and most likely would be getting the charge. I could potentially throw the Lord in and make a unit that can have a nasty charge range (Str6 Great weapons and high charge range - I really can't get out of the Irongut mentality, can I?)
21 a good number then for beastherds? I was trying to figure out what might work. Bearing in mind as we operate as skirmishers we're not getting hit as much, I didn't think panic would be too much of an issue. That, and I'm reknowned for being a scroll spammer, so magic be damned.
As for the other options, the Staff of Darkoth was there to try and insta-charge, the other shaman will try to go for the shadow spell of movement, or if I'm feeling less lucky I'll just go lore of death, my favourite lore which has never failed me and seen the ruination of empires. The Chaos Spawn are slaaneshi for speed, and the Lord is designed primarily for generating combat res - getting the charge off, killing as many as possible. Armour's there because I had the points spare. And I'm not taking a giant. Too many bad experiences. TOO many.
Smaller ambush herds could work. I've definitely have to consider that one. Will have to run a few trial games...
Thanks for the advice though! I'll write up another trial list when I cba. Right now though, need food...