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1) why dont they have the same rule as wood elves? the: they suffer no penaties for moving through the woods rule. they were probably there before the elves....AND they are animals! animals like forests!
2) they have chariots are core choices!?! when 1. they don't know how to build anything, but now all of a sudden something with moving parts? and 2. chariots don't work to well in the forest...where they live. where whould they even build it? they have no villiage, and even if they did, they would have to drive it out of the forest to the battle lines.
3) the #6 spell, cast on a 16+, how is it that is more difficult to cast than the infernal gateway of 15+? summon a giant who sucks OR opening a gateway to the realm of chaos and suck down an entire regiment or monsterus creature+mount???
4) ambush, can it really be called that? you have no choice where your troops come out; could be good, could be bad, or just might have to wait till next turn to find out.
5) and no dragon ogres???? really? man that sucks!
did i miss anything? am i wrong in any of this? im not a beast player but i do feel bad for them.
Nope you pretty much sumed it up,
On the bright side the minotaurs are good!
"Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"
1) Because that would be overpowered? Besides, half of the wood elf units are skirmish, or are a part of the forest themselves ( treekin, forest spirits ) . Beastmen are described as trudging through the forest, trampeling undergrowth. The primarily use the beastpaths crossing the forests of the empire. Elves are more nimble, beastmen are savages, unstealthy and uncautious ( as said in their book ) , just instinct.
2) If orcs can construct chariots, beastmen can too ;D
Beastmen tribes use their chariots in the clearings around empire villages, go over the beastpaths or just trample the undergrowth. They primarily use chariots in the wastelands, the most western lands of the empire between the great forests and Marienburg & the sea.
3) Yup, the castingvalues of the entire lore are too high. Take the spell you can choose to replace your rolled spell for; bestial surge. It's 7+ to cast, and grant D6+1 inch to walk directly towards the enemy, but you can't charge. The VC vanhel's dance is 7+ too, but grants the target an extra move ( march, charge etc. ) or rerolls and AsF in combat. Now compare, which one seems better? Max 7 inch, directly towards the enemy, without charge, or an extra move ( can be march or charge ) , which for VC is 8" , and a buff in combat. Both 7+ to cast.
4) It would be unbalanced if it was 100% reliable, you would see half an army turn up behind the enemy in turn 1. If even 1 unit shows up behind the enemy it seriously messes his battle plans. Can you imagine the pain when a unit, even if it was just a few gors, shows up behind a gunline?
5) Yes, well, we can't have all eh? The inclusion of dragon ogres in beastmen doesn't really make that much sense actually. The armybook centers around the beastmen of the old world ( and there is no mention of beastmen outside the old world ) and dragon ogres/shaggoths live in the world's edge mountains, and the chaos wastes. We've got pumbagors though! And 3 different reasons to bash the plastic giant kit into a rare choice :p ( <- sarcasm )
Minotaurs rock, skirmishing ungor raiders rock.
Agree with The bearded one. Our new codex is awesome besides Lore of the wild, i cant get over that lore it's soooooo bad. A funny thought with ambush is if we could pick with our new army, wow that would be so OP lol.
1. We get lost in the woods
2. And i know your not a beast player but have you seen our chariots..... I think anything that could figure out fire = hot could build the 4 wood piece chariot. I mean the things got a floor, 2 wheels a handle bar, and a carrot on a stick to push the piggy's forward.
3.Still to justify our lore is our retarded Shamans saw the Lord of Change cast badass spell that crippled hundreds of mortal men in there sleep and now they keep trying to cast badass spells themselves. The only problem is they suck and are trying to hard. If you look at it that way our lore makes sense.
4. How do you sneak 100 Beast behind your enemy lines, I know its fantasy and every unit has tunnel vision, but still i think someone would tell the general we shouldn't let those guys flank us
5.They called us a mean name.
Good Luck and have fun!
8th Ed WOOT
1. i guess its not so much the lack of moment that doenst make sense, its more the fact that they are in formations.
2. actually having fire don't mean squat, the Native Americans didn't know what a wheel was till the Europeans came along, till then they dragged stuff on a blanket of twigs tied to a horse and they had fire. so no I still don't think beasts could figure it out. orcs take over castles and caves, with workshops and other things, yes most orcs are dumb but they do get slaves to build them chariots, the ones they dont eat at first .
4. in the last edition they got to chose where they came out, but each unit had to take a LD test, and if they failed it was a random location, so yes i think they got nerfed, and i think they should have kept the" LD rule" and the "must have and equal unit deployed at the beginning of the game if you want to ambush with a unit."
5. those dragon ogres are so MEAN!
Last edited by ninjabackhand; March 9th, 2010 at 01:32.
Ya they really ruined beasts in my opinion too, minators are just a cheesy world of warcraft tauren i feel, the idea of starting a beasts army is by far gone know....
Vampire Counts-4000 Points
Black Templars-2000 Points
1. Orcs are in formations too. It's weird for a rabble to walk in formation, but they do. Just look at it as a semi-coherent group, that is displayed on the tabletop in a neat block.
2. Native americans didn't have wheels untill the europeans came, but the old world in warhammer presents a different scenario, because there the beastmen live between empire towns, cities and castles, a mere stonesthrow away. The new beastmen fluff changed them from scattered raiders to huge masses, and apparently there are more beastmen living in the old world than men. With such a proximity to civilisation it's not hard to pick up the idea of wheels, when you are constantly slaughtering people going over the road with their carts. Most likely the beastmen hadn't developed any chariots untill mankind started to live live and advance in the old world.
Orcs & beastmen are propably of the same level of intelligence. Savage brutes that get lower beings to do their work ( goblins/ungors ) and chop up everything else. In a battle of beastmen against greenskinks there is no finesse at all, just pure slaughter. And many greenskins invade or live in the forests of the empire.
4. The upside of the new ambush is that your unit has only a 1/6 chance of showing up on your own tableedge. The old way it was around 1 in 4. But with the new rules you can at least choose where on the tableedge the unit appears. The old approach was: * arrow points -> * there they arrive. New way: * dice rolls a flank: * I can choose where along that table edge I want them to arrive. In the flankzone of that regiment of 20 swordsmen? Arriving from the flank behind the enemy's battleline? Blocking the charge of an enemy unit?
5. What? Tell me who said it and I'll teach him..!
do me a favour? anyone who likes complaining meaninglessly about the new beastmen book, make a list and play a few games out first, after 10 games and several different combinations of army lists then come back and tell us all how you feel.
im not goin to go over each point idividually because tim has done it so well. but 1 itty biity thing about spell 6... at best infernal gateway can kill 1 whole unit, but a jaaberslythe can panic an entire army of low ld stuff (like Goblins) and if you dont like it, one of the better things about this lore is you can ALWAYS swap out a spell...
Fantasy : Empire, Chaos Warriors, Chaos Daemons, Vampire Counts, Beastmen, High Elves, Lizardmen( but i have opinions on every army just not the money)
40k: Black Templars, Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, Tau (thinking of Eldar)
ive played the new beast 3 times so far, ran by seasoned veterans and won heavily each time. the bests got nerfed, if you played the old version you would know all they needed was a few tweaks to be fully competitive. but GW has no method to their madness, example, the skaven faq just came out...8 pages, 8 pages of mistakes that only pertained to like 50 pages, that's a pretty big error
this is the place to discuss anything anybody may want to discuss Collins254, get over it.
beasts now suck more than they already did when they lost the hordes of chaos support, put that in ur tea and drink it.