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Good morning to all,
While seeking advice on other fourms, and playtesting like mad, I may have solved the problem to why I hated the bestigor so much.
I've decided to post my findings here, and to see what you all think.
Here is what you'll need ... (lol)
1. A lvl 2 bray-shaman using the Lore of Beasts.
2. A lvl 2 bray-shaman using the Lore of the Wild, or the Lore of Shadow. Direct damage or debuffing of the opponent depending on what army you'll be facing.
3. A herd of bestigor, of course.
Using the Lore of Beasts, I hope in gaining Wyssan's Wildform and/or Pann's Impenetrable Pelt. Both spells giving a boost to the T stat.
Using the Lore of the Wild/Shadow, in hopes of smashing apart/weakening missile troops/warmachine crews.
Depending on the points I'm playing at, the bestigor herd will be led by a beastlord or wargor. They will always have Uncanny Senses (gift of chaos) and some sort of great weapon.
I've gone hoof-to-toe with ogres and trolls, and won, with little loss to the herd.
So, what do you all think? Have any opinions/suggestions on what I've just posted?
Last edited by SheBeast76; September 20th, 2010 at 15:01. Reason: typos
They certainly aren't bad. The problem is that they compete with monitaurs, which have alot going for them. That being said, Large formations of beastigors will bring the hurt, with a near guaranteed reroll every turn (Ld9+ reroll= win!). I am starting to like them more and more lately.
They are a good bus for your BSB or bray shaman.
I'm probably the wrong person to ask on the subject, being bias against Minotaurs. Given the choice, I'll pick Bestigors over Minos everytime. This was true back in 7th even when Minotaurs were better than they are now, and it's especially true today in 8th. I think it's because were in the year of the infantry block, it just doesn't pay to have clumsy monsters hulking around and trying to do your heavy lifting.
The Minos are really better used as shock troops, or the haymaker in a 1-2 punch combo, a sort of finisher if you will. Gone are the days when the blood gluttons could just pulp a fresh unit of men. Now they get winded too fast and bogged down too easily. But thats neither here nor there, sorry I tend to get carried away, anyway where was I? Oh yeah, thats right, Bestigors!
I think its great that you found out a way to make Bestigors work for you Leaping Lizards, but if I may make a suggestion, I think you're underestimating them a tad bit. I run my herd with half the amount of preparation, and they absolutely truck units! A herd of 22 w/ full command and a barebones wargor or bsb for extra oomph, and then it's pretty much "Bring it on". Abom, Giant, Hammerers, Chaos Knights, clan rats, all have been blendered before my Bestigor herd.
Yes sir, all these reasons and more are why, IMO, the Bestigors have jostled for pole position above their Bull headed cousins in the Beastman food chain.
" Are you gonna bark all day little doggy,
or are you gonna bite? "
Yes, I agree with Mr.Blonde here. Initiative order and 'step up' really hurts the Minos where Bestigors benefits greatly from the latter, swings GWs with the most important factor, namely, Primal Fury. With the Banner of Discipline and a Beastlord they'll have LD10(as the beastlord is with the unit it does not claim his LD from the 'inspiring presence'-rule thus allowing for LD10 ) which more or less means infinite hatred with WS4 S6 attacks. The damage they cause is frightening. The beastlord config I use is this one;
Beastlord(joins Bestigors): 254
- HA, Shield
- Sword of Might
- Crown of Command
- Talismans of Perservation
This not only mean they hurt a lot, it means they're not going anywhere soon and of course the Beastlord itself isn't exactly a harmless kitten either. In the current list I keep my BSB with beast banner with a block of Gors which can actually dish out some hurt(and once again, Primal Fury really makes a difference).
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
Not to jump on the band wagon here but beastigors are amazing, i use debuffs from shadow to mark they're targets for death, but i have never seen my bestigors fail to bring down a unit. My problem with minos is that have fewer wounds per squad, and every 3 wounds you lose 3 attacks, where as with bestigors in a 22 man squad, you have to lose 12 wounds before it even starts to affect there combat.
I'm still pretty new to beast men, so I have a quick question: you say you give your wargor/ beast lord with uncanny senses and a great weapon, doesn't he strike last because of the great weapon, making senses pointless?
Signature? What, do I sign my name here or something?
Making sure that I don't repeat any of the 100% valid points made here (that I fully agree with) but there's a few more reasons that Minotaurs suffer more than their Besti-brethren.
Size. Their large sizes open them for more attacks and ranged damage.
Armor. Their paltry AS 6 is not going to stop squat. Adding a sheild is near pointless as they lose the parry when they gain frenzy.
Primal fury: After having so many 're-rolls' it's frustrating to miss so many damn times when it's finally your turn. Not having primal fury is what kills this unit to me.
KILL ME IM HEAAAA!!! : Their size and look makes them target number one on the battle field. Psychologically, this unit will freak out the opponent and draw nearly all his fire/spells etc. They don't have the T or AS to survive this.
Point for point, Bestigors are a better investment.
The only thing they miss out on is impact hits...which you can recoop with a cheap and fun chariot.
I really want to use minotaurs, but they don't make sense in 90% of situations. I love the models, I love the stories behind them...but they are just lack luster.
In huge games, where i have the points to toss at 2 squads of 3-5 minos with AHW as flankers, sure....but anything below 2k points they just cost too much. For their price you can get a good size group of bestigors, an amazing lord, or a massive block of core.
With a unit size of 22, what does your formation look like? 7x3? And why 22?
with ASL weapons, 22 is on the very small side for bestigors. I try to have minimum 25. Many of those die to shooting and first I hits.
I have to say that my Bestigors are definitely the MVP's of my army, fight in and fight out. Their attacks at effectively Str 6 cut through most other units like butter, and when supplemented with some extra-killy characters, I've been able to clean out whatever's unfortunate enough to get in their way. That's not to say Minos don't have their place as great shock troops, but the Bestigors are definitely THE army unit that I can point to when someone asks, "How did you win that fight?"