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Ok, so I played against skaven last week (I've played against them before and done ok but this time i got hammered). I'm not sure if my list or my tactics were the problem, possibly even both Game was 2000 points.
So my list was
Gorebull BSB with 4+ ward item from common items
level 4 bray shaman, shadows
level 2 shaman with staff of darkoth, beasts
level 1 shaman with hagtree fetish, shadows (for double miasma)
30 gors with ahw
10 gors with ahw, tried to ambush these, didnt go well.
10 ungors, these were a distraction and for setting up flank charges etc.
4 minotaurs with musician
20 bestigors with flaming banner(this unit was definately too small)
cygor, this guy actually did better than anything else in my army.
His list was basically:
seer, plague priest on foot, warlock engineer with condenser and a BSB chieften.
2 units of clanrats
2 big units of slaves
2 warpfire throwers
generally big blocks of crappy infantry and big nasty monsters with a side of insane magic.
Basically we rolled up the table long deployment mission and he predictably opted to sit back and blast me from afar with various horrible skaven things. He used skitterleap to position his wizards behind my army (maybe i should have held back with the ungors + hounds?). I basically moved towards him as fast as I could. My magic couldn't really hurt him as skaven initiative makes shadows useless until i reach combat. I managed to nail his lightning cannon and weapons teams with the rock lobber on my cygor (though i forgot his magic hampering ability, not that it does much of anything in 8th). My chariot put a couple of wounds on the hellpit (which i hoped to then finish off with the bestigors with flaming banner) but my bestigor unit was swiftly the victam of an irresistable, power scrolling curse of horned rat reducing them to about 5 models (ouch!). The gors were torn apart by magic and warpfire throwers and my minotaurs basically died to lots and lots of skaven slave attacks followed by a hellpit abomination in their rear. In the end I had lost most of my army and though it had been a good game I felt a bit demoralised at the magnitude of my loss!
Any advice on where exactly I went wrong would be great as I have a re-match soon! I think his list was a tough one but i still feel I could have done better.
Thanks in advance
My personal experience vs. Skaven has shown me that unless you're fielding big blocks against them, you're probably not gonna win. I pack 40 Gors with a Wargor BSB with the Beast Banner (for easier wounding) and assorted Gifts of Chaos, as well as a unit of 20 ambushing Gors to (hopefully) get the jump on some Warpfire Cannons, as well as 30 Bestigors, with 2 Beastlords along for the ride. Ditch the Minotaurs, IMO; they gobble up a lot of points, and won't do you much good against Skaven.
Thanks for the tips. I took your advice and went out and bought my third batallion the other day (seriously, beastmen batallion is amazing, i still want another one lol). With the extra models I can now field two units of 30 hors or 40 with 20 ambushing and a whopping 30 bestigors. Feeling like I have alot more wounds on the table now and generally more confident. I have dropped the minos for now, though I will sorely miss them, they are just so cool and they have a great psychological impact on the opponent.
My next list was gonna be:
Great Bray with shadows, ironcurse icon, 4+ ward, AHW and jagged dagger.
Bray shaman (lvl 2) with beasts and a feedback scroll (this thing is priceless against cheapass IF spammers)
Wargor BSb with beast banner, gnarled hide, ha and shield
30 gors with AHW + cmd
26 gors with AHW + cmd
4x5 ungor raiders with musicians
5 centigors with gorros warhoof
30 bestigors with flaming banner and cmd.
Basically this list packs more guys. I will ambush 2 raider units to hopefully pick off wizards/weapons teams making life easier for the rest of my army. The other 2 raider units are to screen against missile fire etc. The centigors with gorros are for monster hunting, his D3 wound weapon is fantastic. I realise I lack the LD9 beastlord but tbh, I dont want to drop an entire unit for 1 more leadership, I include one above 2k though.
I am still unsure if i should swap the lores on my wizards, is shadows or beasts better on the level 4? I figured beasts on the level 2 is nice cos he still gets +3 casting and it allows the shadows wizard a decent shot at mind razor or a nasty debuff.
ooops double post sorry
Last edited by lexicanium; May 20th, 2011 at 22:50.
Personally, I think Shadows is better at L3-4 than Beasts - Wyssan's Wildform is what you'll be wanting to cast most of the time, and an L2 Wizard can get that off pretty easily.
I have to say that I don't ever make a list without my Beastlord - I typically kit him out with a Strength-boosting weapon and a 4+ Ward Save, and he chews through pretty much anything that way while staying alive pretty easily. Not only that, but I put also him in a unit of Bestigors and give 'em the Standard of Discipline, so I can have Ld10 out there (lately, I've even been rolling with 2 Beastlords in that unit!). I find that Beastmen just make way too many Leadership checks to not have it, especially against Skaven. Your mileage may vary, though. I'd be interested to know how that works out.
Haven't had a chance to play yet but I'll post when I have given it a shot
Sweet. Let me know how it turns out - always good to have feedback!