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Of all the armies currently I fear the ogres the most I dont know what their packing but their fast and big and ive had problems dealing with one unit of DOW lead belchers I dont know what to do against the entire army. What I plan on doing (which requires purchasing power ) is to use a feigned retreat rather then my favored refused flank(works wonder against shooters when there a forest on one of the flanks). But I need to buy chaos hounds to do that. I think the game is gonna be about 1500 and play Tzeentch and feild two mark wargors and shaman with 3 stardard beast herds (I need more ungors) a chariot mark minos and mark bestigors. Im not sure how well it will work against ogres any advice?
1500? Well at least you won't be facing a Tyrant. That guy is about as bad as a giant. And, at that level, he can't have much more than what, 5-6 units of ogres? And not a whole lot of magic, either, if any at all. Have you read the Black Gobbo article on how to beat ogres? BoC have almost none of the best options available (being blackpowder, cavalry, and flyers), though we do have our own monsters (just be sure to get the charge, or you're done).
Also, ogres don't move through woods all that well. A small beast herd can toy with them for the whole game in a wood, if the ogre player tries to go after them. Using the 2" vision in woods to your advantage, and your fast herds (in forests, at least), you become the faster unit! Granted, you need a rear/flank charge with a herd to guarantee victory, but you know.
A little advice- kill maneaters with magic. The most common setup of these guys that I've seen is brace of handguns (counts as pistols to them, but same stats otherwise), and heavy armor. Stubborn ogres is not nice at all. Plus the handguns count as 2 hand weapons, so they each have something like 5 ST5 attacks EACH. Granted, they're 80 points a pop, but still nasty. Don't try to take them in combat unless you can kill them all off on the charge, 'cuz otherwise he will probably flank you and whatever you charged with is done.
Bestigors are an amazing unit. Use the staff of darkoth to get a charge off with them (and try putting a beast banner in the unit for +1 attack). The strength 6 attacks means no saves and wounding on 2+ against ogres, which is very, very nice. Actually, anything with strength 6 attacks or better are good against them (minotaurs, shaggoths, dragon ogres).
In my list I threw in an exalted daemon and a unit of like 8 furies. And there is not a whole lot he can do to catch these guys without leaving himself open to a charge. They have no movement magic, no skirmishers, nothing as fast of their own, you can pretty much pick your target and then hit it when, how, and where you want. Fast cav is also very good for this too. The only thing they have that can counter a unit like that flying around their rear ranks is gnoblar trackers, the scraplauncher, and leadbelchers. Leadbelchers suck, because they have to roll to hit (and against skirmishing flyers...), gnoblars suck, leaving the scraplauncher your only real threat to the flyers. Just take that out first.
Hope that helps some.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.
I just played a ogre unit in a 1k point game. he was fielding about 4 units i belive. Iron Guts with Brute, Bulls, Ledbelchers, and Butcher. The Iron guts were hands down devestating. If at all possible you need to either tie him up all night, or destroy the iron guts with magic. Make sure you use beast heards to screen your big units from the ledbelchers. his first volley with the ledbelchers, he rolled 26 shots with his artilerty dice.... needless to say it devestated my bestigors whom were unscreened because i used the herd to protect my minos. He choose to beef up his guys instead of field some gnoblars, which hurt him in the end when my warhounds and herd tied up his big units so my minos could flank charge everything, which i think is the key to beating the ogres. Keep them tied down and flank charge everything that moves. Anyways hope my rambling helps in some way in taking down the ogres, good luck
Also forgot, your minotaurs can stand up fairly well against the ogres, so take a bsb and put a vitrolic totem in a beast herd, this gives your guys poison then take advantage of the spear ungors for extra attacks. with some lucky rolls you can quickly take down 2 or 3 ogres and give you enough combat resolution to break a unit of ogres. I used this successfully and ran down a unit of bulls with some measly gors with no problem.
I agree with those advices I tested them myself the work really good, but the victory was at a high cost.
I lost more than 65% of the army and 20% was fleeing of the battlefield.
Use chariots to attack in the flank and rear this works good.
One chariot killed 3 ogres in 2 turns really nice isn't it?
bestigor make a good chance against Bulls, but ironguts will kill them.
LOOK OUT FOR MANEATERS!!! The killled 23% of my Army in just 3 turns.
That has got to hurt! Ouch!
Good luck with defeating the orges the really are good.
PS maybe you can take Ironguts yourself against other nonshooting army's
The are DoW why not? :hmm:
Maneaters are very nasty, but very expensive. If you can find a way to tie them up, or destroy them that is a very big point sink that can often mean the win. How you would do this, not quite sure :o but still
Well, they don't have that great of a save (heavy armour at the most), so posion isn't such a bad idea. Somebody on here already suggested the vitrolic totem in a beast herd (lots of attacks), and that sounds really nice. Also, a lord or hero with a great weapon can mess up an ogre a turn. Throw him into some bestigors, and you're set. You should be winning combat res if you have full ranks and outnumber the whole time, plus the wounds you're doing. I had my Khorngors with lord with the Black Maul take out two units of maneaters (and the first unit got into my flank!. But then, there isn't a whole lot that doesn't get eaten by that unit.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.
Virtrolic totem is great against high toughness/armored guys. just make sure you write it down on your army list, because when your guys tear threw some iron guts, and you roll like 5 sixes hes not gonna belive that his super cc unit just lost combat resolution to some ungor