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I am starting tzeentch beastmen. my two main opponents are going to be skaven and lizardmen. i already know how to defeat the skaven player but now i need to know about some strategies to beating lizardmen with my beasts. Do most of you lose to lizardmen, win against them. any ratios of wins to losses with beastmen vs lizarmen would also help.
"What's nastier than the smell of melting polystyrene? The smell of burning flesh."
I am by no means an expert in WH, but I do know a few things. First of all I have some pretty bad knews, lizardmen have almost no weaknesses. They are one of the few armies that it tough in all aspects. They do however lack ranged units, but as a BoC player you dont have too many ranged units that can exploit that. Their other weakness is that they are expensive. REALLY expensive.
Slann can cost astronomical amounts, but have enough power to be worth taking. As a tzeetch horde you may be able to put up a good showing in the magic phase, but Slann are considered the best wizards in the game by some, so it won't be a walk in the park. If you can kill his Slann though you have pretty much won the game vistory points wise. It wont be easy though, it will most likely be surrounded by Temple Guards, or whatever they are called. Get them to break, running down a Slann is the easiest way to kill it. If you can muster up something that causes fear and get to the Slann that can help a lot.
Saurus are strong CC units. So be careful when dealing with them. They are also hard to break because they are cold blooded. Maybe ambushing them would work well, but I am really not sure.
Just remember, Lizardmen are expensive and most of your enemy's weaknesses will come from him putting too many eggs in one basket. Just see what your enemy fields and go for the high point units.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>You can write some simple noobish of your own, however, by slamming your face into your keyboard
Underlies has had some great advice so far, and I agree with everything he's said. We do need to know what you lizardmen friend likes to field (or has if you're just starting out). The lizardmen list just has too many options for anyone to make a truely effective general list for them.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.
I fought against lizardmen not long ago and I managed to win. However, I was using a Mortal army but it had beastman elements. The thing with lizardmen is that they're a pain to get rid of unless you can kill them all!
Because of their cold-blooded rule, you have to give a saurus unit a really good kicking to reduce their leadership enough for them to fail their break test. This is difficult for several reasons; first, they are quite tough, second they have more attacks than you would expect (each saurus gets two attacks minimum! and third is being cold-blooded. If the slann general is nearby too, the problem is made worse them being able to use his leadership! :wacko: I had to surround a unit of saurus spearmen with three units and even then it took about three to four turns of duffing them up before they finally broke :hmm:
As underlies said, there won't be many of them because all lizardmen stuff is so expensive. A few other things to be worried about are the Skink skirmishers with their poisoned blowpipes, Salamander artillery and finally the Stegadon! The stegadon has four lines of special rules in the lizardman army book! Four lines! It's also (among other things...) rock hard, has loads of wounds, causes terror, inflicts impact hits like a chariot and has skink crew who get a high armour save for being in the howdah... I am at a loss as to how to deal with something like that. I just tried to avoid it... :hmm:
If the Slann isn't with temple guard, do try and kill him if at all possible. But be aware that he's very tough, has lots of wounds and a reasonable unit strength. So trying to use something like a unit of flyers or fast cavalry to sneak round and assassinate him probably won't work.
If anyone else has any suggestions about duffing over lizardmen, please help us!!!
"Peace, through superior firepower."
One of the best things i can reccomend against lizardmen is 5 chosen knights. Aside from kroxigors and characters LM just dont have all that much to beat them,and they rip up saurus like theres no tommorow. Properly supported they are brutal. Another thing,i would ALWAYS take the staff of change. I know,it means you wont get lots of other cool fighty-based magic items,but it is soooo worth it. One time i had 7 DD and the staff and a single scroll vs 12PD of chaos dwarves,he got 2 spells off the entire game. THe reroll is gold. Also,minotaurs are great against both skaven and lizardmen,although you have to watch out for skinks as poison can cripple mino's.
Basicly there are 3 kinds of lizzie armies.
Saurus stampede, skink swarm (like Southlands), monster charge and magic mayhem.
At least, in the players' mind, they always have sth they consider the core, the backbone of the army.
In saurus concentrated armies you'll expect a lot of saurus blocks. Probably screened. Some skink priests for dispelling and second sign casting. And one or more faster flanking monster (units).
Counter it by charging the saurus blocks from all sides. Don't let them charge you, no gor will stand them. If you do get charged, try to survive the first round. With only I1 they won't hit first in later rounds.
In short, hit them before they hit you.
Skink armies will probably be from the Southlands list (for which they don't need to ask permission). They will have a lot of skink cohort (ranked with hw, javs and shields) and skink skirmisher units. You can also expect Horned one riders (fast cav) and hard-hitters, especially kroxigor. In larger battles they probably have a slann, or just more skink heroes. All skink weapons are poisonous.
Against skink armies, use monsters. Skinks have low Ld, so use fear casting monsters. But look out for their poisonous attacks. So screen your monsters if you can with some cheap ungor or hounds.
Don't expect to outnumber these armies.
Magic armies will always be 2000+. They only have use with a slann. And as many skink priests as possible. And probably a scar-vet (saurus hero). The slann will have temple guard. Further expect more saurus, if they have a spawning it will either be Quetzl (+1 Sv) or Tepok (+1 DD). As allways skirmishers. And jungle swarms for a good defended flank. Maybe a couple of hard-hitters.
You can take out these armies by either defending yourself with a lot of dispel dice/scrolls and in the mean while taking out his units. Or try to overpower him, which will only be possible taking Tzeentch.
Monster armies will have at least one block of saurus. A lot monsters: kroxies, CO cav, stegs, sallies and terradons. And quite a lot of skirmishers. All these monsters are fast and hardhitting.
These armies also only exist in 2000+ size, in which case you can be sure to face an oldblood on a carnosaur.
Just like with the saurus armies, hit them hard before they hit you. Or blast them with magic.
And in general, lizzie players fear missile fire and cavalry charges.