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  1. #1
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    107 (x4)

    Balanced Knight and Peasant list.

    Hi,

    I once thought I had a solid army list for Bretonnians, up until that is, I was Kindly put in my place (and quite rightly so) by Spector, who pointed out the illegality of my Lord with TWO Virtues. Now it was nice to have a Lord, who could re-roll to hit and to miss, and for each successful wound caused he could make another attack, but alas it was not to be. In response I have rewritten my entire list which has given me a chance to field more peasants than I usually would in my Bretonnian armies, and I was wondering if I could receive some feedback on this list as to how well people think it may work, or if any significant changes should be made.

    Lord = 400.
    Heavy armour,
    Hippogryph,
    Enchanted Shield,
    Silver Lance of the Blessed,
    Virtue of Discipline,
    Knights Vow.
    (This guy is meant to fly around and get flank charges, hopefully doing enough damage not to get any attacks back in return. He is weak in defense with no wards and a 2+ save, but he is not intended to go around killing characters or performing head on charges, instead he is looking for quickly breaking units by himself in a flank, or in conjunction with a knights unit charge and chasing down the unit and any character that may have been within without having to fight them. I realise he only has the knights vow but It would cost me 5 Bowmen to buy it for him.)

    Paladin (army Stb)= 133.
    Heavy Armour,
    Barded Warhorse,
    Lance,
    Army Standard Bearer,
    War Banner,
    Virtue of Duty,
    Knights Vow.
    (Simply, a +3 standing combat resolution to travel with one of the Knights of the realm units. Cheap and cheerful.)

    Damsel = 105.
    Horse,
    Lvl 1,
    Dispel scroll.

    Damsel = 105.
    Horse,
    Lvl 1,
    Dispel Scroll.
    (Two dice generators in reality each holding a Scroll. Not much hope in magic getting off but useful none the less).


    9 Knights Errant = 221.
    Full command,
    Errantry Banner.

    8 Knights of the Realm = 216.
    Full command.

    8 Knights of the Realm = 216.
    Full command.

    Grail Reliquae & 18 Pilgrims = 226.
    (Not an immense unit but difficult to get rid of with hatred and stubborn leadership 8, good for holding up troops if nothing else).

    10 Men-at-arms.

    10 Men-at-arms.
    ( No upgrades, nothing fancy, just the basics with pole-arms/halberds. You might say with this set up I should collect Empire instead as that is exactly how I intend to use these two units, as detachments for the Pilgrims or as units to support the Field trebuchets. Sure they won’t be able to react in the same turn like empire detachments can, but I’m hoping stubborn leadership 8 will hold for a turn to get my Men-at arms in there, negating ranks and getting those strength 4 attacks in the flanks.)

    16 peasant Bowmen.
    Defensive Stakes.
    (A bit of missile support and at the very least something to slow down troops trying to get my war machines with those defensive stakes.)

    Field Trebuchet.

    Field Trebuchet.
    (Being a dwarf player who loves his tooled up Grudge Thrower how could I not. Though not as accurate as a tooled up GT I figure having two will make up for it.)

    Total = 1998
    Casting pool 4
    Dispel pool 4 + 2 Scrolls
    Around 90-100 men.


    Thanks for any feedback,
    Saltrock36


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  3. #2
    Member General Thaddeus's Avatar
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    7 (x1)

    Lord = 400.
    Heavy armour,
    Hippogryph,
    Enchanted Shield,
    Silver Lance of the Blessed,
    Virtue of Discipline,
    Knights Vow.
    (This guy is meant to fly around and get flank charges, hopefully doing enough damage not to get any attacks back in return. He is weak in defense with no wards and a 2+ save, but he is not intended to go around killing characters or performing head on charges, instead he is looking for quickly breaking units by himself in a flank, or in conjunction with a knights unit charge and chasing down the unit and any character that may have been within without having to fight them. I realise he only has the knights vow but It would cost me 5 Bowmen to buy it for him.)
    ;?;?;?HOLY @!$%!!!!! 400 points for a guy whom you hope, might do something!!! Get some Pegasus Knights to do the same thing! Get three or four PK's and a relatively cheap Lord. That way you can give your peasant bowmen skirmishing. By the way, I know what ya mean when you said that you needed 2 Trebs because you were a former dwarf player since I was one too.

  4. #3
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
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    131 (x5)

    While the Hippogryph is an amazing model, I think that it is very expensive to use in a 2000 point game. Almost every army you play will have something that can do significant damage to your mount. I would suggest dropping him off the hippogryph until possibly 3000 points, where he isn't such a large chunk of your army.

    Also, your lord will still have a ward save if you do pray before the game (which you always should).

    Also, if you want to be able to reroll dice for both the to hit and to wound phase, either take the Virtue of Confidence and the Gauntlent of the Duel or, the Virtue of the Joust and the Heartwood Lance.

    In regards to the rest of your list, I think the units of 10 Men-at-Arms are really not enough to be effective. The reason it works for Empire is as you stated because of their detachment rules. Men-at-arms are very cheap units, bump them up to 20 each and give each unit a standard, as your enemy doesn't get VP for them if captured.

    As for the double Trebuchet's, I really think you may want to drop one and add in a unit of 5 or 6 Grail Knights. They are amazing units, and will wreck havok on your opponnents. You should be able to do this with the points you earn from dropping the Hippogryph if you decide to go that route.

    Also, last thing about this list that I noticed was that your bowmen would be better off as skirmishers. Its a cheap upgrade and gives you a bit more survivability vs. missie fire and mobility to boot.

  5. #4
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    I agree with Spector generally, definitely make the Men at Arms into one large unit (25 if poss)and possibly some command, if not full. Also the bowmen will be far more useful skirmishing.
    And 2 trebuchet's? not very knightly Grail knights will serve you well.
    If your keeping your general like that (He is nice, a hippogriph is awesome) get him the Grail Vow. ItP will help him immensly. Also tool him up for more wider ranged role in the army. Im not sre wat his lance does, but if i remember right its an expensive magic weapon. For hit rerolls and good S, use the birth sword. Along with Virtue of confidence (no outnumber res for the enemy?) he should be able to take a fully ranked up unit head on, and from the flank even better as hey wont get ranks either.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
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    131 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deceiver View Post
    I agree with Spector generally, definitely make the Men at Arms into one large unit (25 if poss)and possibly some command, if not full. Also the bowmen will be far more useful skirmishing.
    And 2 trebuchet's? not very knightly Grail knights will serve you well.
    If your keeping your general like that (He is nice, a hippogriph is awesome) get him the Grail Vow. ItP will help him immensly. Also tool him up for more wider ranged role in the army. Im not sre wat his lance does, but if i remember right its an expensive magic weapon. For hit rerolls and good S, use the birth sword. Along with Virtue of confidence (no outnumber res for the enemy?) he should be able to take a fully ranked up unit head on, and from the flank even better as hey wont get ranks either.
    Silver Lance of the Blessed is the most expensive Magic Weapon Bret's have availiable to them. It makes all your attacks automatically hit.

  7. #6
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    107 (x4)

    Hmmm, I beginning to think this list may have just been too much of a pipe dream for what I wanted to be able to achieve. Realistically this is a mock up I should save for an empire list with a few infantry blocks and war machines supporting a knight heavy army, whilst leaving greater unit options open to me.

    All your criticism has been taken on board and I feel the list need a total overhaul to do it justice, and replace some units with those better suited for what I tried to achieve with this list. I will rethink my game plan and come back with a much better and Bretonnian style of force.

    Many thanks again,

    Saltrock36

  8. #7
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    Constructive Criticism, we try not to be too harsh If you want a decent warmachine setup then empire is the way to go, but Bret Cav is the best around. Their support troops are decent too, you just need to playtest with the army and get familiar with it.

  9. #8
    Organised Chaos saltrock36's Avatar
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    As promised I have rethought how I want to use my Bretonnians in a game as have fittingly (not to mention drastically,) altered my original list to suite. I have taken on the much appreciated constructive criticism offered, hopefully putting it to good use in this my new list.

    Lord ; 272pts
    Heavy armour,
    Barded warhorse,
    Shield,
    Birth-sword of Carcassone,
    Gromril Helm,
    Virtue of Discipline,
    Grail Vow.

    Paladin; 133pts
    Heavy armour,
    Barded warhorse,
    Lance,
    Army Standard,
    War Banner,
    Virtue of Duty,
    Knights Vow.

    Damsel; 140pts
    Horse,
    Lvl 2,
    Dispel Scroll.

    Damsel; 125pts
    Horse,
    Lvl 1,
    Dispel Scroll,
    Chalice of Malfleur.

    9 Knights Errant; 221pts
    Full command,
    Errantry Banner.

    8 Knights of the Realm; 216pts
    Full command.

    8 Knights of the Realm; 216pts
    Full command.

    11 Bowmen; 82pts
    Skirmish,
    Musician.

    4 Pegasus Knights; 230pts
    Gallant,
    Musician.

    6 Mounted Yeomen; 103pts
    Musician,
    Shields.

    6 Grail Knights; 258pts
    Full Command.

    Casting pool :5
    Dispel pool : 4-5
    2 Scrolls

    Hope to hear good things about the revised list though criticisms are equally accepted.

    Thanks once again,

    Saltrock36
    Last edited by saltrock36; August 28th, 2007 at 20:19.

  10. #9
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
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    131 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by saltrock36 View Post
    Paladin; 133pts
    Heavy armour,
    Barded warhorse,
    Lance,
    Army Standard,
    War Banner,
    Virtue of Duty,
    Knights Vow.

    Damsel; 140pts
    Horse,
    Lvl 2,
    Dispel Scroll.
    I like this list alot better. A few comments though. First off, you Paladin BSB is illegal. He cannot take a Lance, and cannot take magical weapons as the Warbanner counts as a magic banner. Secondly, I don't know if you really need the Damsel at level 2. If all she is going to do is be a scroll caddy, I would likely leave her at level 1. With 5 total power dice, your unlikely to get any spells off even against an army with hardly any magic defense.

    Also, if you need points for elsewhere, the musician on the Pegasus Knights can be dropped, as unless you badly fluff a charge, you shouldn't be charging too many things that will do that much damage to your PK.

    With the points you save you could bulk up your Bowmen unit a bit, maybe add a Brazier for flaming arrows incase you come across anything flammable.

  11. #10
    King of Librarium's Tombs Phoenix's Avatar
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    579 (x8)

    I defnitely like the look of this list better. Follow Spector's advise, drop the damsel's level especially. Also you could drop a knight from each KotR unit and put a damsel in there, giving the whole unit magic resistance.
    Possibly loose the shields on the Mtd yeomen? i think they loose the fast cav status with shields.
    Maybe look at getting a Men at Arms unit or two into the army, but boosting the size of the pesant skirmisher unit may be a good idea too.

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