Really Need Help for First 2250 Tourney List!!

[MDSW]

It’s time for me to play in my first tourney!!

I really need help with choosing some of the best items to take to round out the points. I have been playing a list very close to this for some time, but never against really experienced players, so please help me out!

Lord
Royal Pegasus
Lance
Shield
He will run with 3 other Pegasus Knights with Musician & Champion (no S

Paladin (BS
Warhorse
He will run with 8 KoR w/ full command

Paladin
Lance
Shield
Warhorse
He will run with 7 KoR w/ full command and a lvl 1 Damsel on horse (no barding) w/ 1 dispel scroll

9 Grail Knights w/ full command

Grail Reliquae w/ 3 extra pilgrims

24 M @A w/ full command and a lvl 1 Damsel on foot w/ 1 dispel scroll

5 Mounted Yeoman w/ Shields - Musician only

14 Bowmen w/ LA and Skirmish

10 Bowmen w/ stakes

1 Trebuchet

Total 2124

This combo leaves me 126 points for ‘stuff’ (we love ‘stuff’, don’t we?) in the 2250 tourney limit. I know some armor items can replace items (Armor of Agiluf will replace a shield, etc.), so I really need the Lord to wreak havoc on items hard to catch and tarpit some units with the GR and M @A so I can smack with the knights w/ maximum force. I am a firm believer in the hammer/anvil approach! The two damsels are used mainly for MR and dispelling.

Everyone’s expertise and suggestions are most welcomed!!!

[oneminushaus]

For starters, I'm under the impression that your Lord on Pegasus can't join the unit of other Pegasus Knights. I believe the rulebook specifically states that characters on flying mounts can't join units, even other units of flyers.

I don't have the book in front of me and could be wrong... so please correct me if so. And this doesn't affect your list, per se, but it certainly can affect your strategy/tactics and could also affect what role you want him to fill.

Second, if you need more points as you add in more magic items I feel like the Light Armor on the Bowmen is the first place to shave points. Unless you're REALLY good at rolling 6s.

[Demandred]

I think it would help if you actually write out your entire list, instead of adding the characters units with the characters themselves.

It's my belief that any list that is 2k or Above (especially tourney lists) need at least 3 dispel scrolls and the chalice, or 4 dispel scrolls. To that end you need to cut points somewhere in order to fit enough scrolls to fill out both. I would also get either put both on a horse, or add the mounted damsel to your grail knight unit (see below)

I also think your grail knight unit is too big. You are paying for 2 knights thast arent even seeing combat. You have a large number of points sunk into a unit that does just fine with 6 knights and full command. You could even drop it to 5 knights and add a damsel on a warhorse to the unit in order to get it some magic resistance. That way every grail knight you pay for is in combat. They also could really use the MR, because grail knights are a favorite target of Beasts Cowers and lore of metal spells.

As for your characters, I agree that they need some magic items, Bretonnian heroes arent all that impressive in the larger scheme of things and they need some help. There are only two reasons to ever take a character on a pegasus in my opinion. To either get a character with virtue of heroism to go monster hunting, or to be a lord so that you can take advantage of no restrictions on pegasus knights. You are doing neither with your lord.

Your BSB could either use the virtue of duty, or some defensive items. I personally run mine with a Sword of Might and the Gromril Great helm. He still helps with CR from being a BSB, he gets some decent strength 5 attacks, and he has a good defensive item to protect against attacks directed at him.

I think you could cut points by either dropping the M@A or the Grail Reliquae, I dont think you need both (since most likely all they will be doing is protecting a flank or the treb). Hammer and Anvil is all well and good for infantry armies, armies like bretonnians are better suited for combo charging, rather than tarpitting and then charging.

[BretLord]

A few little pointers, if you want a GR tarpit, you really need to give it more pilgrims. You are basically running it at the minimum at the min, to give you two rank bonuses, however, these really dont last long with the GR. you only have to have lost 4 models to lose all the rank bonuses, I usually like to have at least 8, usually 10, gives a bit of extra cover. You kinda currently have 2 attempted tarpits, niether will necessarily do a brilliant job, prob worth going for one or the other and boosting it up a bit.

Your pegasus lord cannot join a unit of pegasus knights, is the rules, I believe it is because a unit of flyers cannot be joined by a character, rather than a monster not being able to join a unit, but can't remember precisely and my BRB isn't handy.

I agree with Demandred, there is a lack of Magic defence in this list. If you are going into a tourney you are really going to struggle against magic heavy armies (which is a lot of the more common ones seen nowadays)

Demandreds asessment of grailknights is superb, I hate Grailknight units of 9, they are just too many points, and at 6 they do a pretty fine job. And 5 is best with a damsel, whilst giving you enough points to add in a whole unit of Errants as well.

I would agree, pegasus lord should prob have virtue of heroism for monster hunting (in which case it can be risky with your lord as he is also general, and a lot of monsters can be pretty nasty if he doesn't get it), or you should be going more RAF and have at least 2, prob 3 units of peg knights.

LA on bowmen is pretty pointless, is expensive and most of the time will have virtually no effect.

Your foot damsel should be mounted, protecting more knights and freeing a unused knight slot.

and get out of the habit of writing a bret list around the characters you want and the unit to go with them. It is knights that win you the day, not often characters. be careful with this.

[MDSW]

This is great! Thanks to all - I will definitely shave down the Grail Knights, which will free up a lot of points - this way I don't have to be so critical of the few points left to get just the right magic item. I can also add in a couple more dispel scrolls.

And, I really needed to re-read the rule section about the characters and I did not have it right at all. I will move the Lord into a unit of knights, since I am a little scared to have him running by himself. This way I might move a paladin over to the Grail Knights or just eliminate one and have lots of points left over for a unit of KE.

Now, I just need to get another damsel on horseback...Ebay, here I come!

[MDSW]

One more question - I don't think I can have both a Paladin and a Damsel in the same unit of knights, since they are both heroes - Is that they proper way to read that rule?

[oneminushaus]

One more question - I don't think I can have both a Paladin and a Damsel in the same unit of knights, since they are both heroes - Is that they proper way to read that rule?

I'm not sure which rule you are referring to. Either way, I don't believe there is a limit to the number of characters that can join a unit. Meaning, having your damsel and your paladin join the same unit of knights if perfectly fine.

In fact, speaking of Bretonnians, I've seen people put their general(Hero), a BSB(Hero), and a Lady(Lord) all in the same unit of 6 Grail Knights. Pretty ridiculous if you ask me, but also hilarious as I'm sure it'd be funny to play. Talk about lots of eggs in one basket...

[Jacks985]

I play with 3 heroes in my Grail Knight Unit(hammer) and it acts like a great compliment to my Battle pilgrims(anvil). It works awsome!!!!