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Here is my tentative list for a game against my friend tomorrow. It is a "friendly" list in that I would rather have a fun balanced list than a powergamer list, although the game IS for our summer campaign points so I would like to be competetive.
I have tons of models to choose from (roughly 3500 pts if I take everything), but he is fairly new to WH, I just got him hooked a month ago. He currently has 1200 pts but we decided to limit the game to an even 1K so I will not know EVERYTHING he is bringing to the table. I usually play 2K or 2500 pt lists and it was very hard for me to trim it down to 1K!
Virtue of the joust or lance of Artois?
Curaiss of fortune
Damsel Lvl 2
Chalice of Malf.
KE X8 Errantry banner
General rides here
BSB rides here
17 skirmished PB - damsel w/ them
16 M@A full command
I think I need some better combos for the paladins, but fitting in the Orcbane shield is rough- only the general can have it (BSB no shield!). The only other option is to drop the damsel and run no magic and 3 paladins... not so good against Orc magic, I know he has two shamens, not sure if he is planning on using one or both.
Any help would be appreciated!
Should I split out the 2 lances into 3? Drop the peasants altogether and run more knights?
Greetings fellow Kevin. Together our might shall rule the world!
First, it looks like you have a LOT of points sunk in characters for such a small battle. Do you really think the damsel is necessary, with the Bret ward save and all? If you keep her, I wouldn't bother making her lvl2, and I would put her on a horse and include her in a knight unit so they get her MR.
Since you know your friend's army list I suppose you know whether or not to worry about fanatics. Cause it doesn't look like you are.
Why bother with the orcbane shield? Doesn't it have a pretty small range? If your character is alway in the knight unit, you'll probably not get much use out of it. I've never had good luck with it, just because it never affects enough units. Are you playing the same army against multiple opponents?
17 bowmen? Wierd number. What are you hoping to shoot with them? I'd make them smaller, cause they can't fight, and there aren't many great targets in O&G. goblins are too numerous and orcs are too tough. Then I'd field more M@A, cause they are the only thing that might outnumber orcs.
It gladdens my heart to see peasents in the army.
Yeah it is a lot of points in heros...
However I know he will have a lot as well- given his small list of models.
The 17 PB number comes from it was a unit of 20 I shrank a bit to get back into point range...
I just did another list with the heros with no gear at all except the general, dropping the archers altogether. Gave me enough points for another lance of KOR! I put the damsel @ level one w/ a horse and one dispel scroll.
I suppose my archers were added out of habbit, I always run lots of archers, and have been known to field 100 of them in a 3K point game (I have 90 of the old archer models, and with some M@A command guys I can field 100). I know he will be using his core troops, as they are the only ones he has (no night goblins, thus no fanatics YET!).
16 orc archers
16 orc boys
I suppose lances will do better to break these units than 17 PB. I will up the M@A to my full count of 30 (rather than 2 units of 16).
If this is actually all he has in terms of troops, then I'd drop your general and field another damsel. Cause he's gonna have an AWFUL lot of magic to field a 1000 point army. I think this is only about 300 pts?Originally Posted by Waaaghboss
So I assume he has more troops other than his core. But given what you've listed here I'd say your two units of knights will win all by themselves.
BTW if you want to improve HIS army, tell him not to bother with his archers either. I've never seen orc archers used, and I know 4 different orc players. OR you could tell him to field ALL archers and then mop the ground with him. :shifty:
If he has war machines, I'd keep a few archers around to deal with them. I have a ton of the old archers too, and it is always tempting to just field a swarm of them and cover the landscape. Unfortunately, usually the landscape end up covered with their dead bodies...
Have at them! Smite them orcs for the lady!
Yeah it is a lot of points in heros...
He has more troops than that, but not sure if they are core or not:
He has 10 goblin wolf riders and 10 black orcs + the orc chariot. These all together are 1000 pts. when added to the troops listed before, the two shamen and the boss on a boar (he has the models from the box set). I don't think he will be leaving his archers at home, as they are 33% or so of his core troops!
Funny, when I fielded my 100 archers in 2 groups of 25 + one group of 50 skirmishers I don't think anything ever reached them alive to kill them... one group got close but w/ stand and shoot I killed enough to make them flee! The terrain was well suited for it though with a big hill on the back of the board so two ranks of archers could shoot.
Here is an alternate list:
Gauntlet of duel
Virtue of confidence
Viture of empathy (still mounted- for 12" peasant duty)
Damsel lvl 1
KOR X8 BSB goes here
KE X7 General goes here w/ damsel
Last edited by Waaaghboss; July 19th, 2006 at 19:45.
Just one small detail but where is the battle standard bearer?
Basically life sucks, there is only war and you're probably gonna get eaten by Tyranids, have fun.
Not sure what you mean about the BSB, as in both lists presented there is both a BSB and which unit he rides with.
The battle was tonight, and I got a minor victory out of it. If we had time to run the last turn I could have gotten a bit better, but then again so could he! I'm glad I used my archers, as he had a nasty suprise waiting for me! One new unit of night gobbos with 3 fanatics!
Thankfully the scatter dice smiled on me and they were only effective the turn they popped out. Killed 4 out of 5 of my mounted yeoman... I did some last minute changes to my list to counter his fast cav, thankfully I included them as they were my only screen to save very expensive knights from his fanatics! The lone Mounted yeoman stayed in and ended up routing his stone thrower crew!
My losses: 4 out of 5 MY, and one unit of 6 knights from a unit of 9 that fled, lost the blessing. I destroyed: one unit of gobbos, one unit of night gobbos, and two units of orcs. His black orcs and general got a flank charge on my one unit of knights that destroyed a unit, pursued and ended up to the side of his battle line. Orc magic got them to charge me...
All in all the list worked well, but magic was a major sticking point. A single lvl one damsel vs. two lvl two goblin shamens... Next game should be at 1500 pts as he is buying more and more stuff. I haven't played a 1000 point game since I started WHFB many many years ago, it was very hard to narrow down a list that small! Next time I think I will bring more peasants and two units of 6 knights! I won several combats against goblins and orcs by more than 7- pretty much overkill! 6 knights would have been plenty!
Aiee! Fanatics. Glad you had some yeomen.
Watch out, if he is clever, he'll get more of those, and some of those nasty stone throwers/doom divers to smash your knights with.
I hate orc magic. Glad you triumphed over him!
Yeah, I learned the horror that are goblin fanatics!
Anything to counter them besides sacrificing a squad of mounted yeoman?
I also found out I need to run a few small squads of PB rather than one large squad. Thankfully the fanatics scattered towards his lines after the first turn, but I still shot them down as they were right where my knights wanted to go. Two turns of waiting for the archers to kill two fanatics really threw off my normal tempo. I need to run at least 3 small units of archers! I'm sure he will be adding more fanatics seeing how effective they were!
I myself need to add more MY- I only have one squad of 5, looks like I will have to add another unit of 5.
I hate fanatics. They slow everything down, but if you are smart about them, they don't tip the tables. You can:
1. Ignore them. Either avoid the unit, or just accept that they will hurt you and proceed as normal. I'd avoid the unit if possible, panic it with shooting or magic so it flees and you never have to deal with the fanatics. Of course, you are then devoting a bunch of shooting to night goblins, but with 3 fanatics, a unit of night goblins might be worth more than 100 pts. Maybe even worth a Trebuchet!
2. Trigger them sacrificially, then shoot them. You did this. You could also use peasents to trigger them, but then it'll take even longer.
3. Trigger them to hamper his movement. Run your mounted yeomen so there is one of his units in between you and the fanatics when released, or sacrifice the yeomen to halt the goblins and an entire flank. Then run all of your combat units on the other flank. With Bret speed, you can probably pull this off. Tricky, but making his fanatics hurt him more than you is always satisfying.
Two things to remember:
1. Night goblins don't Necessarily have fanatics. Sometimes he is making you waste your time worrying about a 40 pt unit of worthless.
2. The new orc book comes out soon, so don't waste too much money plotting against fanatics until you see if they change in the new rules.
Best of luck,