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I know most of you won't exactly be cheering when you read this thread and I'd like some advice for my next game of Warhammer against a Bretonnian army.
From what I've seen my opponent takes A damsel inaddition to the BSB, a unit of men at arms and then spends the rest of his points on KOTR, he may put in a unit of QK or not.
My question to you, and also request is, what is the best way to go about defeating Bretonnians? As a vampire counts player I currently see the option of using zombies to hold down his most dangerous threat whilst I can take care of the peasants and the damsel quickly with A combination of Grave Guard and Ghouls, my vampire in the unit. I also plan on using my corpse cart to negate his magic if possible, whilst my skeletons attempt to hold my flanks. As a last dirty trick I hope to manage to roll for curse of years, this will ignore their 2+ saves and I can only hope he doesn't roll sixes.
Here is the basic list
Icon of Vengance
Crypt Ghast (champion)
1 corpse cart
10 grave guard
Banner of the Barrows
you could beat him at his own game with blood knights.
Fenzied units never good when Brets have lovely little peasants to lure away the nasties. And who cares if the little guys die?
You're having trouble with Bretonnia as an undead army? Interesting. Undead armies give Bretonnia fits, due to you being unbreakable tar pits.
Most undead players i know do not try to win via taking the most wounds but try to win combat resolution via rank bonuses. Even a unit of grail knights on the charge against a giant block of skeletons will be bogged down for another turn or two after the charge fighting them off. Add to the fact the vampires/necromancers will definately raise more dead to keep that elite fighting unit stuck in combat with that roadblock and unable to help elsewhere. Add to the fact that you can auto break units not immune to pyscology or units that cause fear and terror themselves.
If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.
Right. Just use big blocks of undead to soak up his knights, then bring units around to flank if necessary. If a Bretonnian can't beat you on his charge, he's going to be toast as long as you keep your units up. You'll eventually do a wound or two, and at that point you just want numbers, ranks, and standards to beat him in combat resolution and cause him to flee from a fear causing unit.
Take Black Knights without barding - as fast as Bretonnian knights, but no issues moving through difficult terrain, S4, T4, cause fear, and have killing blow so no dodging some of those kills. Helm of commandment can make them WS6 etc if required...
Nightshroud is useful as it makes the opponent strike last, lose charge bonuses etc, so you may well get some decent hits in before the opponent - and a Vampire is strong enough to use a biting balde effectively, S5 + biting blade, or sword of might , means wounding most knights on 2s or 3s, and their armour save being reduced to 5+ instead. So no need to get a fancy Dread Lance. making yourself Ethereal and the appropriate vampiric power is also a nice way to get a great-weapon wielding, AS 5+ loony who can only be touched by magic weapons or magic, and hits with S7..
Use the fast cavalry Dire wolves to outmanouvre the knight blocks, and then reform to attack the peasantry.
Finally, you should have magical dominance, so zap them, taking the appropriate power will mean access to IoN and Lore of metal, so you should be able to cause much hurt to the Bretonnian army with magic missiles.
Thanks for all the advice, for movement I'm definitely going to be out manovoured (though I plan to try and cast a few Vanhel's to get into combat and deny the strength bonuses, and can his knights on the falnks still fight if I charge?). Shooting won't be a problem as neither of us have shooting in our armies, and I'm certain to have dominion of the magic phrase, with his damsel he always swaps a spell for the bears anger and tries to cast it on turn one, I plan to let this slip until close combat at which point I hope to dispel it with the scroll.
As for combat, well. Bogging him down with CR is probably what all undead do best, and if I can manage to kill one or two knights then I'm not complaining. As for the helm of commandment, I may just give my vampire avatar of death (which wold be better, two hand weapons or hand weapon and shield?) and add in that piece of trickery to the list, replacing the flayed hauberk. Usually I place my zombies away on a flank though this time it might be the sksletons who find themselves there, ws6 zombies (who can strike first with the corpse carts boundspell) are not something he'd expect to see on the battlefield, and I reckon the ghouls can take on the unit of M@A.
Bears anger cannot be cast on a mounted model, and the damsel is such a poor fighter anyway (as are all Bretonnian foot troops) that unless he wants to spend points on Virtue of Empathy, Bears Anger is useless..
Next up - Wraiths and banshees - Bretonnians have numerous ItP etc units, but their leadership is not fantastic...so a banshee wail is an excellent "killer punch"
Try big units, brets will hate it if you clog them up with big units of zombies and ghouls. Your unlikely to kill much but if you can get that magical SCR (static combat resolution). Then without the charge they will be forced to kill a lot. Undead shouldn't really have a problem with bretonia. Grave guard squad is too small the brets will get the charge and they will munch through that squad as it isn't really that big and its an expensive unit.