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My local gaming group converted to fantasy a little while ago now and we're all about to start on our second armies. After collecting Tomb Kings I’m hiding over to bretonnians because I’ve always believed them to be one of the best looking and most flavour full armies around.
I've just got a couple of questions before I start playing with these guys.
1. How important is psychology? After playing an unbreakable fear causing army exclusively I’m a bit nervous about failing a fear test and having my knights fail to charge just to be charged in the following turn. And are the knight errant a valid solution tomb this? (local gaming group has ogres, VC, Daemons, and those frustrating ASF HE)
2. Is it worth the upgrade to lvl 2 on the damsels? If I run them as pure magic defence they are cheaper and my opponent wastes a lot of points on magic defence that he never uses (staff of sorcery, scrolls and other magic). Vortex shard was common against my tomb kings just to spite me in a turn.
3. Is it worth running 12 strong lances? The extra rank bonus and 2 models worth of attacks shouldn’t be the determine factor between losing or winning combat on the charge for a unit of knights, so is it worth the extra investment?
The draft 1250pt list I’m building to first is:
Paladin (ASB ), Barbed Warhorse, Shield, Biting Blade
Paladin (General), Barbed Warhorse, Grail Vow, Enchanted Shield, The Lance of Artois,
Damsel, Barbed Warhorse, Dispel Scroll
24 Men at Arms, Spears, Yeoman Watchman, Standard bearer, Musician
10 Peasant Bowman, Villein, Musician
5 Knights Errant, Musician
8 Knights of the Realm, Musician, Standard bearer
5 Mounted Yeoman, Shields, Musician, Standard bearer
3 Pegasus Knights
3 Grail Knights
Last edited by bugsmagooma; February 20th, 2010 at 04:18. Reason: "B )" turns out to an emoticon, who new . . .
Hail, fellow Bretonnian noob. :]
I'm also fairly new to Bretonnians, so my advice may not be a solid foundation, but to offer my support...
1) Psychology is a pain in the arse. I've come from a Vampire Count army, so found myself in the same situation as you. There isn't honestly much you can do about it. You will fail fear tests, you will fail panic tests. It's all part of the rough and tumble, the best you can do is take it on the chin. A key point, Knights Errant become immune to psychology upon declaring a charge. These guys work wonders against fear and terror causing muppets (I have had a unit of 6 personally run a Hellpit Abomination off the field!), and I'd highly recommend them against your local opponents! Maybe even slap an Errantry banner (+1S upon charge) on them and have them hunt some big game (Ogres?).
If you're still shaking a little about Psychology, maybe look into Questing Knights and Vows, or even Grail Knights/Vows?
2) I'm sure you've seen this mentioned before, but in a Bretonnian army, magic becomes very much obsolete. The only reason I can ever justify bringing Damsels is for the dispel dice and/or magic resistance - and in both cases, upgrading to level two won't do you any favors. You'll waste valuable points which you could use on the extra knight or two.
You really have to just embrace the fact that you're not going to own the magic phase anymore. Bring Damsels if you wish, but again, as with a lot of things in the life of a Knight, you really have to take magic on the chin.
3) Lance formations and unit sizes really are a matter of opinion. The first few games I played I ran units of 9 Knights in the lance. When they hit home, they hit hard, and got the job done. On the other hand, they were too many points, generally resulting in major overkill and wasted attacks and points. Furthermore, and probably the most important negative factor, was that the abnormally large flanks and lack of maneuverability causes major problems, which can only really be solved by sporting large blocks of Men-at-arms at your sides, and even then securing them can become tedious.
Personally I'll run units of 5 or 6 Knights in the lance, hit home with a charge, and providing I win the combat, reform into a single rank of 5 or 6 - this allows for a lot of flexibility, and also, my favorite part - The more units you take, the more free champions you'll be fielding!
I've nothing more to add to that, really! As for the list, each to their own. Personally I don't believe in Pegasus knights enough to bring them in smaller games. I'd watch out for those "Barbed warhorses", and maybe replace them with Barded ones . Why the Biting Blade on the BSB? You should be relying on your lance, not a hand weapon! Not enough Peasant Bowmen for my liking! Mounted Yeoman are excellent units IMO, remember your "Flee" charge reactions and subsequent automatic regroup - this can be used to pull enemy units into perfect positions to counter-charge. Finally, I would personally rather a Field Trebuchet above Grail Knights any day. Learn to guess distances and these things are brutally effective against anything (Last game I played I managed to swat a lone Vampire Dread Knight with a well aimed shot! Made over double their points in that one turn!) your opponent can throw against you. Each wound caused multiplies into D6 wounds... think Ogres.
Let me know if you need anything else!
"Show 'em the gunline, Boss"
Thanks for the assist
I thought that if the BSB had a magic banner then he "may not be given any extra equipment . . ." and that meant he couldn't take a lance (or shield for that matter) when he has a magic banner. I didn’t want to chuck the lance on because it will be used in larger games when he cannot take a lance . . . I might just break the magnets out again and have lots of options for him as the model must be in every army I construct.
Damsels are looking less promising now, I guess rust run defensively. (Love the look of the mirror, 15 extra point --> half strength mage --> 50-100vp swing). Also seeing a bret player play a Slan with lore of metal made me think I need some magic defence. . . . Going into battle with petential ammo strapped to ourselves didn't seem the smartest idea that game.
Also you’ve convinced me to leave the barbs to the chariots and concentrate on staying alive . . .
the bsb may not use a normal lance no, but some people and tourneys deleted that rule to keep it in line with the newer books.
the magical lances do not follow the 'lance' rules though, so you could buy a Lance of Artois for a bsb without a magic banner
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
Sweet and short......
1. Psychology IS a pain, but a smart player can make that a strength rather a weakness.
2. Defensive magic only. The second you start to think offense you are behind the curve. Just protect the knight and you'll do fine.
3. 9 should be the max. remember; field enough to take some hits and still be worth something when you get to the fight.
4. Always ask yourself, "What can I see at this points level, what am I going to see at this level?"
Hope this helps.