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Through the highs and lows, I have been playing my Brets during 8th. Here is my wish list for the new ed.(I have no idea when is coming)
1. Devastating Charge rule for all knights. If we cant break steadfast(units of 50+), the at least give us the ability to kill enough.
2. Make our horses real Bretonnian Warhorse, give them S4, on the charge at least. Our horses are just as weak as anyother horse in the game.
3. Banner of the Lady, for 100pts, it needs to do more then deny rank bonus........deny steadfast?
4. Bring back the Virtue of Countercharge, or maybe make it a new Banner (possible combine with #3?)
Anyone else wanna add to the wish list?
1. I think all cavalry (not just us Brets) should ignore striking in initiative order on the charge and the charger gets to strike first. Or, just give the bonus to Brets - that would be OK by me!!
Think about it...A charging horse and rider's momentum will still barrel down and smack the charged unit, regardless of whether you struck it first or not.
2. Some beefed up foot soldiers - either Sargeants at Arms or Foot Knights. We need a better foot unit to compete with all of the other horde-capable elites out there. Even our great knights kinda suck when mired in cc - except for the great armour save. I like our cheap M@A's, but we just need something a little better to be competitive.
3. Bring back some of the special characters - especially the fellow that boosted our archers!!
It always seemed to me like men at arms with their huge shields should have some special rule dealing with them. Something like as a charge reaction you can declare they are forming a shield wall. While in shield wall formation and fighting only to the front they have a 3+ as but the front rank may not attack.
that would be a pretty nifty rule... gonna paint some men at arms now =D
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
They will never give men-at-arms shield wall rule when dwarfs dont get it. A drop in points to the same price as goblins and they become alot better as you can go big for very cheap. At the moment we pay the same as a an empire footsoldier or chaos warriors marauder with little to validate the cost. Might be worth considering having cheap pesant units of militia and then keeping men-at-arms the same cost but upping thier profile to WS3 just to bring them in line.
Our archers at least now have volley fire which is good.
Think ther needs to be a dedicated unit to escort the king/general into battles rather than relying on grail knights all the time. A house guard (House Karls --> Huscarls) probably with the same stats as Grail knights but rules more based around the general like other armies guard units (Temple guard for lizardmen and hammerers for dwarves). This opens up the option to change/improve grail knights.
Could have impact hits to go along with lance formation, at S5-6 depending on strengthon unit when boosted by lance. Say a number of hits = to the charge distance rolled, so if you roll 3 dice and get 3 ,4, 6, you would only use the 4+6 =10 so get 10 S6 impact hits. Then if you had any modifiers like a banner that adds D6 you would get and extra what ever you roll. basicaly impact hits = the ful lcharge distance rolled at your charge strength.
I like a personal guards for general idea. I like the idea of more choices 'cause Brets have the least of all WHF.
as for what i'd personally like to see in a new bret book;
- higher % cap for characters since we're supposed to the be heroic, character centric army! keep the 25% max for lords, but why not say 50% cap for heroes?
- impact hits for the lance formation. devastating charge just makes our knights too good, but perhaps a series of impact hits like say D3 + ranks as the charge hits home and drives through the enemies ranks? also allows a decent bonus for those larger units with their hellishly long flanks!
- lose the flank for the lance formation. seriously, it's almost impossible to protect that flank, and with everyone getting steadfast + BSB re-rolls, the knightly charge turns into nothing but a tarpit of expensive models...
- seperate allowance for virtues vs magic items... seriously! VC's have powers + magic, warriors & beasts have gifts/mutations + magic, slaan have generations + magic... right now, there's alot of really good combos possible, but there's no room in the pts cap for it, thus our knightly characters - especiall the paladins are fairly lack-luster.
hell, they're only on-par with empire captains right now since the pally's extra bonuses are off-set by the captains much cheaper cost! bret characters are akin to 40k's space marines - devinely gifted heroes who can face-off against impossible odds and win! but their rules hardly relect that at all now...
as for the units;
- lose the 1+ for realm knights. why can't i make a proper erranty war list that's just questing knights, errant knights, squires, bowmen & characters?! stop hamstringing the list with those silly kinds of restrictions!
- guardians of the realm. a new unit of S4 realms knights that's perhaps a 1 per army or say 1 unit per bret lord choice? represents those realm knights who never took up the grail quest and form the local baron/duke's personal household and his most trusted servents.
- peasents vs men-at-arms. as pointed out above, make men-at-arms worthwhile and give them proper stats, while a new peasent unit could be more akin to large, sacrifical tarpit 'o doom!
right now men-at-arms are too costly to make effective, and only really serve to act as a potential T7 tarpit with flesh to stone...
- foot squires. make them the skirmishers, but perhaps give them the scout rule and/or a boar spear or hunting arrow - basically a slightly specialised kit that gives them armour piercing attacks since they're supposed to be the poor bastards who have to go chase large game out of hiding!
- other units like the questing knights, grail knights, grail pilgrims, mounted squires, pegie knights and such work pretty well - just perhaps some slight pts ajustments to bring them into line with the large unit focus of 8th edition. (since all those 6th books are horrible over-pointed right now!)
as for new units, that's a tough one since the bret background is totally against most forms of war machines, monsters and mercs... however, you know there's bound to be at least 1 or 2 new units, and likely a big monster kit in plastic, so it will be interesting!
Men at Arms - I feel could use a single point reduction per model. As well as drastically cut the cost for the champion upgrade. Additionally, I'd really like to see the Polearm, which currently counts as a halberd (and can be replaced with spears for free) be able to be chosen at the beginning of combat as a halberd or spear (similar to how you could choose to use your hand weapon and shield combo in the previous edition).
I'd like to see Grail Knights stay the same points, but gain +1 toughness and +1 leadership.
I think the best way to get over the steadfast would be to give an addition to the Lance rule and allow a knight lance with a rank that charges in the flanks of the enemy (thus disrupting enemy ranks) also negate steadfast (but only while in the Lance formation).
Also, it has never made any sense to me that an entire army would line up across a field from their enemy, and dismount to pray. You would NEVER do that. If you were to pray for a blessing from your deity, you'd do it before you left the castle - not on the field of battle. Make the Blessing automatic for knights and damsels, and not require the forfeit of first turn.
Our warhorses are real Bret Warhorses, we dont take a movement penaly for barding.
I like the banner of the lady denying steadfast.
Not sure what the virtue of couterchare was? What edition is that?
My biggest gripes..err...recommendations lol...
1.) Men at arms should not change their stat line and cost only 3 pts (effectively the price of the new goblins) or keep the point cost and raise the WS and leadership each by one.
2.) Give grail knights plate mail. I don't see how the Horse army of fantasy doesnt have plate knights. This isnt a big deal, just doesnt make since to me since Empire has it.
3.) Squires or foot sergeants would be nice, SOmething lIke WS 4, I 4 Ld 8, Heavy armor, shields, hand weapons for 10 points each. (this seems to be the biggest thing across bret recommendation. Everyone want better inf unit bc of 8th ed rules.) Thoiugh I find the GR works very well.
4.) More characters, lord options. There are so many historical figures they can base Heros off of. Charlamange, all the Henry's, Robin Hood, Charles V, all the other knights of the round table, etc...
5.) I think King Louen should have Ld 10. How can the Emperor have ld 10, he is a man ruling an empire, but brets only have ld 9. WHat our king is to incompetent. Hell, the average dwarf has ld 9, as good as our KING!
I like the idea of units with "reach" (lances, spears) having the always strikes first rule on the charge. Someone mentioned this.
But honestly all my above recommendations may make Brets OP, I find that Brest are very effective if used correctly.
@ MobiusPrime makes since, sorta, you leav on a campaign, you don't know when the battle is coming, so you have to pray for that day. Also, I find going 2nd is not a big deal, they move a lot of their stuff into charge range for me on the first turn. Just weather one turn of shooting and magic and walla.
P.S. _ Even if they did that I would still pray and always go second. (I would fear the ladies rath still) it just wouldn't feel right.
Last edited by Reiko; February 17th, 2011 at 05:45.
"For Plunder and Women!"
Bretonnians 7500, Empire 3300, Dwarfs 4800; Space Marines 2000, Tyranids 3000
A Devastating charge breaking steadfast would take the list back to the point and click army of 7th. No thanks. (I'm going to charge across this table and if you get in my way, well that's your problem.)
However I really like the idea of the banner breaking steadfast. That would be a really cool addition.
I would like some other type of troop. To give some more options for filling out armies.
I can see them doing a big kit for a release too. Maybe a cool grail relique. Or maybe a plastic trebuchet.