Failed Charges And Bretonnians - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    So you declare the charge with the grail knights, check that they are in range (*woohoo*), starts drooling about the massive number of wounds you're going to cause.... then they declare that they are fleeing. And now you watch them flank your lance, and ruin your day...

    I'm sure everyone has had that experience at some point when playing Bretonnians So, my question is, what units/formations can you use to save yourself from a very bad day??

    And some side questions ... (I've been seeing different answers to these, and I'm wondering what rules people play by in general?)
    1. Do PKs move 10" or 20" when their charge fails?
    2. Do failed chargers move straight ahead, or do they move in the direction of the fleeing unit?

    It's only a lance of Grail Knights... won't hurt at all!

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    People flee from the most bent unit of cavalry in the game, come on this shouldn't be a surprise

    As far as I understand it a unit failing a charge will half its charge distance toward the unit that is fleeing, unless of course it finds itself in a position to redirect the charge.

    Not sure about the flyers though.
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    Originally posted by Courvein@Mar 2 2005, 05:35
    And some side questions ... (I've been seeing different answers to these, and I'm wondering what rules people play by in general?)
    1. Do PKs move 10" or 20" when their charge fails?
    2. Do failed chargers move straight ahead, or do they move in the direction of the fleeing unit?
    [snapback]342217[/snapback]
    WHFBRB pg. 52, under the heading "A Failed Charge"
    If a charge fails, the unit is moved at its normal Move rate rather then double speed. The unit is moved directly towards the intended target as if it were charging, but halts once it has covered a normal move distance.
    So, PKs normal move is 20", therefore you get a 20" failed charge move, as when they charge, they aren't doubling anything.

    And as for the straight ahead vs back issue, technically the flee reaction is from seeing you come at the models, so I would say that you move your charger straight towards the original location of the fleeing unit.

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    Originally posted by OmnipotentKiwi@Mar 2 2005, 15:20
    WHFBRB pg. 52, under the heading "A Failed Charge"
    So, PKs normal move is 20", therefore you get a 20" failed charge move, as when they charge, they aren't doubling anything.

    And as for the straight ahead vs back issue, technically the flee reaction is from seeing you come at the models, so I would say that you move your charger straight towards the original location of the fleeing unit.
    [snapback]342387[/snapback]
    I agree... though there are some discussions with other players who feel that the 20" flying unit failed charge move is overpowered, b/c the typical counter to a charge is to flee and set up the charger for flank attacks... in this case, the PKs will fly 20", smack dab into his lines and make it very difficult for him to flank charge or counter. If you think that's ok, just imagine louen charging in like that too hehehehe

    But back to the main discussion, what type of units will you prepare to counter the flanking charge strategy that he would be using?
    i. make it too expensive for him to decide to flee (i.e. declare charges with 4 lances on 4 units, so if he flees, he loses a massive chunk of his army)
    ii. keep reserve units to smack his flankers after he flanks u? I think PKs or smaller KOTRs would be good for the counter charge?
    It's only a lance of Grail Knights... won't hurt at all!

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    well people fleeing with units is the bane of bretonnians.
    mounted yeomen would be very could flank protectors
    ie positioning them so they cant get into the flank when they flee.

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    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    I run my knights in a nice line with pegasus at the far flanks, each knight unit is opposite an enemy unit starting from one edge of his formation with the pegasus knights at the other end. This means my whole army charges at the same time against everything in front of them, so he either flees with everything and probably gets chased down or has to hold his position. Sometimes there is a small unit of skirmishers in the front or something, I blast them away with magic and trebuchets first.

    This can leave a few of his units free if he has more than me, but the pegasus knights keep them company until my knights have time to reform and get to them, and usually the knights blast through a unit so any enemy would have to turn all the way around to get at me. It works pretty well, and if trebuchets can hit and hopefully route a unit before I get close its even better for me. Archers aren't so bad at softening them either, contrary to popular belief.
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    Originally posted by strewart@Mar 2 2005, 20:12
    I run my knights in a nice line with pegasus at the far flanks, each knight unit is opposite an enemy unit starting from one edge of his formation with the pegasus knights at the other end. This means my whole army charges at the same time against everything in front of them, so he either flees with everything and probably gets chased down or has to hold his position. Sometimes there is a small unit of skirmishers in the front or something, I blast them away with magic and trebuchets first.
    [snapback]342650[/snapback]
    I can see that working! Do you have problems with warmachines picking apart a lance before your line hits?

    I think the yeomen are not that great for flank protection because they won't be able to hold against any type of counter charging flankers. You could try to angle the yeomen so that they will redirect chargers away from your lance, but I like Strewart's option with PKs better since that's an offensive unit the other guy cannot ignore.

    Has anyone tried using a lance as a reserve unit? That way if the first plan screws up, the Bretonnian won't be screwed for the rest of the game... (you know, when your lance charge *just* happens to miss every damned thing you're trying to hit )
    It's only a lance of Grail Knights... won't hurt at all!

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    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    Do you have problems with warmachines picking apart a lance before your line hits?
    Sometimes, but in one situation 3 knights and a BSB managed to charge the front of a 1000 point skaven unit with special character and bell, not only did they win combat they chased down and killed the whole unit! So the warmachines need to do a hell of a lot of damage in the first turn or two to stop me, and pegasus knights can fly ahead to get them then move back when needed or magic can help sometimes.
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    I don't see war machines being able to do that much damage before the knights charge, the knights should pretty much charge on turn 2 anyway meaning that only one unit is likely to get mauled (and even then you get a 5+ ward save). Even against an army with loads of war machines you shouldn't have too much of a problem as they will have used up all of their special/rare slots on machines instead of units that can take a charge.
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    [quote=Lurch,Mar 3 2005, 032]
    I don't see war machines being able to do that much damage before the knights charge, the knights should pretty much charge on turn 2 anyway

    On turn 2 they've fired twice, they get the firs turn if you take the blessing, and remember pretty much all empire players take 2 or even 3 greatcannons, but usually 2, along with 1 or 2 hellblasters. Thats 4 cannon shots and at least one volley from a hellblaster, the good way to stop it is screen your knights with say mounted yeomen, and have them a little to one side because cannons have to fire at the center of a unit.

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