A Rant (Sensitive All-Knight players, avert your eyes) - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Teron's Avatar
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    A Rant (Sensitive All-Knight players, avert your eyes)

    I'm sick of seeing point'n'click All-Cav lists with no magic. Even High Elves, who have probably worse infantry than you, make more not-magicless-not-all-cav lists than you.

    But hey, your magic and Men At Arms suck, no? WRONG.


    Let's start with the M@A. Goblins don't suck, right? They are cheap. Well, hello, M@A are Goblins. But they cost one point more, nay? So they suck, right? Wrong again.

    M@A may cost one point more than similarily-armed Common Goblins, but let's see what they get for it:

    1. No Animosity
    2. Standards don't give VP
    3. Can draw Ld from Knights

    Pretty freakin' good for a single point, eh? So, do they still suck? Wouldn't say so...


    What about magic, then? Damsels suck, nay? They don't have much cheesy Heavens Magic, no fancy +1 to Casts and such. Basically, they are human Wizards. That MUST mean they suck, right? Think again.

    Damsels can hide inside Lances, where they can still grant Magic Resistance, blast opponents to pieces without even seeing them (Master spells), protect the unit from shooting/charges (Mistress of the Marsh, Howler Wind, Rain Lord), turn the mandatory Champion into a sick killing machine (Bear's Anger), or make the unit charge in the Magic Phase (Wolf Hunts). And the Prophetess can still drop Comets on the enemy, and blast them with armour-ignoring lightning.

    All this for, what, +10pts/Damsel or +15pts&-1To/Prophetess (who gives MR2. Not to mention the To doesn't come into play due to Prophetess hiding in Lances) in comparison to normal human Wizards? And they benefit from the Blessing, no less. And you STILL HAVE THE NERVE AND ARROGANCE to complain about your spellcasters?

    In short, anyone with an army composition like

    Knight chars
    Caddy
    Knights
    (*gasp* perhaps a unit of Bowmen or a Trebuchet *gasp*)


    Should go somewhere far, far away before I come and strangle them.

    /Rant

    Last edited by Teron; August 6th, 2005 at 21:20.
    Use Light, Beasts, Metal instead of Heavens
    NecroLords: Use at least one Death Mage
    Brets: Use Peasants&Damsels
    Skaven: Don't use Skryre SAD

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  3. #2
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    Dear Cry-baby,

    Piss off.

    Sincerely,
    David

  4. #3
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    *Slap*

    Brets = Horsemasters, am i wrong? Nay

    2/3 of the list is made up of cavalry, hmm wonder if that is a major hint, ah yes, it is.

    Why take crappy peasents that are slow and carn't keep up with the hard hitting units? Oh thats right, just so losers like you wont cry so much :rolleyes:

    Just learn some tactics, brets are easy to beat.

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teron
    I'm sick of seeing point'n'click All-Cav lists with no magic. Even High Elves, who have probably worse infantry than you, make more not-magicless-not-all-cav lists than you.

    But hey, your magic and peasants suck, no? WRONG.


    Let's start with the Peasants. Goblins don't suck, right? They are cheap. Well, hello, Peasants are Goblins. But they cost one point more, nay? So they suck, right? Wrong again.

    Peasants may cost one point more than similarily-armed Common Goblins, but let's see what they get for it:

    1. No Animosity
    2. Standards don't give VP
    3. Can draw Ld from Knights

    Pretty freakin' good for a single point, eh? So, do they still suck? Wouldn't say so...


    What about magic, then? Damsels suck, nay? They don't have much cheesy Heavens Magic, no fancy +1 to Casts and such. Basically, they are human Wizards. That MUST mean they suck, right? Think again.

    Damsels can hide inside Lances, where they can still grant Magic Resistance, blast opponents to pieces without even seeing them (Master spells), protect the unit from shooting/charges (Mistress of the Marsh, Howler Wind, Rain Lord), turn the mandatory Champion into a sick killing machine (Bear's Anger), or make the unit charge in the Magic Phase (Wolf Hunts). And the Prophetess can still drop Comets on the enemy, and blast them with armour-ignoring lightning.

    All this for, what, 10pts/Damsel or 15pts+1To/Prophetess (who gives MR2. Not to mention the To doesn't come into play due to Prophetess hiding in Lances)? And they benefit from the Blessing, no less. And you STILL HAVE THE NERVE AND ARROGANCE to complain about your spellcasters?

    In short, anyone with an army composition like

    Knight chars
    Caddy
    Knights
    (*gasp* perhaps a unit of Bowmen or a Trebuchet *gasp*)


    Should go somewhere far, far away before I come and strangle them.

    /Rant
    THANK U GOD!

    I'd kiss yur feet if i could :p

    Its not that 2/3 of the army is knights, thats cool, but 3/3 of knights? Jesus man that sucks for both players.

    Y take peasants... hm maybe because the field terb is a cheap str 5 stone thrower? Maybe its because longbow men are dirt cheap and can fire hails of arrows to compensate for their crap bs?

    Y take Damsels? Maybe its because a little bit of magic defense wouldn't hurt?

    We're not saying screw knights. No one would be so stupid. We're saying be more diverse, sure add 2/3 knights armies but put up a damsel or some longbows, it can only help.
    "Heresy is like a garden weed, it won't stop feeding until you... BURN THE WHOLE DAMN GARDEN WITH A FLAMER, BURN IT, BURN IT TO HELL!!!!!" "Is there a wittle puppy in the garden? ITS A DAEMON! BURN IT!"

  6. #5
    Senior Member Teron's Avatar
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    The rant only discussed M@A and Damsels, who seem to be sorely underrepresented in the lists. Longbowmen actually appear from time to time (as they should: For their price, they are the fifth-best non-skaven shooters and second-best archers in the game), as does the Trebuchet.

    But the amount of all-knight armies without a single unit of M@A frankly sickens me. Not to mention Damsels going to waste. Woodies have much more expensive casters with quite a bit less benefits than yours, and they don't complain. Why should you?

    And, lastly, to those who say that taking M@A doesn't fit with the Bretonnian playstyle:
    Of course M4 infantry don't fit if you still try to play the army like an all-cav force.
    In that case, the M@A are a waste. Because of what? Because of poor use, not because they're crap.

    Try playing a mixed force, and practice tactics for such an army. You'd probably soon realize that the Peasants are actually good.

    You have probably the best cavalry in the game, excellent horde infantry, good shooting and good wizards. All at reasonable cost. Not many armies can boast that. The army list gives you options, so USE THEM.
    Use Light, Beasts, Metal instead of Heavens
    NecroLords: Use at least one Death Mage
    Brets: Use Peasants&Damsels
    Skaven: Don't use Skryre SAD

  7. #6
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    I can understand why a Bret player would not want to take M@A. It's the same reason that a HE player doesn't take Pheonix gaurd, Swordmasters, or their other kick-a infantry units: THEIR SLOW!!!

    Taking infantry in a 2/3 cavalry army severely hinders the ability of the knights.
    However, I do understand that it is not all together fair if they completely forgo magic, but what idiot passes up a mage/wizard even if it's just for the dispell dice?
    I get the impression that you are complaining about a noob player who is killing your army even when you put all your brain-power into it. A few suggestions: switch him/her armies, get more brains, get a different army.

    Anyhow, what army are you playing that you're getting stomped by Bretonnian Knights? :lol:
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  8. #7
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    Taking 2 Damsels means that if by any chance they both die, the army loses the blessing.

    If you didn't know, that sucks for a bret army.

    Yeah sure peasent bowmen are cool, and they to turn up in bret lists.

    M@A down turn up to battle in many bret lists because they suck anal. That's the only reason

  9. #8
    Son of LO H0urg1ass's Avatar
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    Usually when someone rails against an army in this manner it is because they are pissed off because they are losing to a similar army. If this is true, then it would have been better to come here and ask for some tactics with your army vs. their army, cause then we could really help you to understand your list better. If this IS the problem, then just tell us what army you use and we can help you perform better, and maybe even win.

    If you are not losing to a bret army regularly and this is just a general rant against a common type of army list, then I'm curious as to what the problem is? It's a fairly standard list, and to tell you the truth, when I hear that I'm playing a Bret player, I usually sigh a big sigh of relief. Why? Cause I already know what he's bringing to the table. Bret players are so easy to figure out that it's not even funny. I can start formulating my tactics against most bret players before they even put one model down on their side of the table. This makes the hundreds of "all knight" Bret armies a pleasure to deal with, IMO.

  10. #9
    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    Even High Elves, who have probably worse infantry than you, make more not-magicless-not-all-cav lists than you
    HE infantry is better IMO, seaguard suck but spearmen and especially swordmasters are good.. And yes they make more all round lists, but lots of people say all cav HE armies are the most competative.

    I think Bret magic is good, damsels provide magic resistance, can use one of, if not the, best lores in the game (life) and can sit in unargueably the safest place for a mage in the game, second rank of 2+ armour save warded knights, and still cast. I wouldn't want to go magic heavy, but I definitely never leave damsels behind and use them for more than scroll cadies.

    I think GW clearly meant for Bret armies to be mostly knights, all the fluff and army lists they make indicate it and Brets do have the best cavalry in the game, plus 4 or 5 different options for them.

    M@A, one of my biggest problems with them is the models suck IMO. They don't look good at all, and I hate the way the arms go together.. I don't take them for the same reason as others, because they are too slow to keep up with my army. Now you say change playing style so they fit properly? Sure I could do that, but I don't want to. My playing style for Brets is hard and fast, why would I change that just to fit a unit in? You don't see HE players saying hmm seaguard don't get used very often, I'll change my playing style just to make a unit work, or the same with any other unit in any army.. I have a playing style in mind and they simply don't fit it, so I leave them behind.

    Archers, excellent choice they are useful and cheap. Trebuchet, once again good choice for its points I'll usually use one.

  11. #10
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    dude don't u talk bout swordmasters not being taken. Quite the opposite, almost every list has swordmasters.

    M@A are no good in a knight army (cause they be slow) but the damsel, longbowmen, and treb are exellent aditions to the army.

    M@A are excellent only in peasant armies (which are actually very kickass when u add 1 or two units of knights for support).
    "Heresy is like a garden weed, it won't stop feeding until you... BURN THE WHOLE DAMN GARDEN WITH A FLAMER, BURN IT, BURN IT TO HELL!!!!!" "Is there a wittle puppy in the garden? ITS A DAEMON! BURN IT!"

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