Kingdom of Heaven - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
    Senior Member §ilent§torm's Avatar
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    Kingdom of Heaven

    So this is half army list and half modelling advice seeking, so I figured this was a good mid-point of those two. Everyone seen the movie 'Kingdom of Heaven' yet? Just came out on DVD in my area last Tuesday, and I loved it in theatres so I bought it and now I want a crusader army, based on the movie.

    So first off, the list.

    1 Balian of Ibelin (Bretonnian Lord) @ 259 Pts
    General; Heavy Armour; Grail Vow
    Virtue of Confidence (1st)
    Birth-Sword of Carcassone
    Mantle of Damsel Elena
    Gauntlet of the Duel
    Enchanted Shield
    1 Warhorse

    1 Sybilla (Damsel of the Lady) @ 125 Pts
    Magic Level 1
    Chalice of Malfleur
    Dispel Scroll
    Warhorse

    1 Almaric (Paladin) @ 99 Pts
    Heavy Armour; Battle Standard Bearer; Knightly Vow
    Conquerors Tapestry

    6 Knights of the Realm @ 176 Pts
    Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Musician; Barding; Knightly Vow
    1 Gallant

    7 Knights of the Realm @ 216 Pts
    Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Barding; Knightly Vow
    1 Gallant

    24 Men-at-Arms @ 152 Pts
    Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
    1 Yeoman Warden

    24 Men-at-Arms @ 152 Pts
    Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
    1 Yeoman Warden

    19 Peasant Bowmen @ 125 Pts
    Longbow
    1 Villein

    19 Peasant Bowmen @ 125 Pts
    Longbow
    1 Villein

    9 Peasant Bowmen Skirmishers @ 80 Pts
    Longbow; Braizers
    1 Villein

    1 Grail Reliquae @ 235 Pts
    19 Battle Pilgrims
    Light Armour; Shield

    6 Mounted Yeomen @ 103 Pts
    Spear; Bow; Shield; Musician

    6 Mounted Yeomen @ 103 Pts
    Spear; Bow; Shield; Musician

    1 Field Trebuchet @ 100 Pts
    3 Peasants
    1 Yeoman Craftsman

    1 Field Trebuchet @ 100 Pts
    3 Peasants
    1 Yeoman Craftsman

    Casting Pool: 3
    Dispel Pool: 3
    Models in Army: 157

    Total Army Cost: 2150

    Somebody's going to ask about the 2150, I just know it. Ever since the Rogue Traders at my store moved to 2150, that's what everyone there plays, all the time. I know it's weird, but that's how it is. Secondly, the list isn't supposed to be great, if I wanted it to be great, it wouldn't have peasants at all, except to man the trebuchets, if I take them. The list is supposed to be themed and fit the characters and army(ies) featured in the movie.

    And the modelling part.

    For the characters- I really have no idea here. Balian can be done from just a straight questing knight, with some work done. Or, since Legolas was also played by Orlando Bloom, I could get a LotR model and convert it. Though I don't know how accurate the sculpt is on the Legolas models. Anyone know if it's worth it? The other characters- I've no ideas on how to do.

    The knights are fine with just Bretonnian knight models, though I was thinking of using either the new Wood Elf horses ('cause they're really nice) or just standard horses (like the ones mounted yeomen ride). Because if I remember correctly, the horses in the movie didn't have anything on them save for maybe a riding blanket.

    The men-at-arms, peasant bowmen, mounted yeomen, and the trebuchets are just fine as-is, I think. Maybe a bit of conversion or green stuff work here and there, but not on every model. They're already pretty close to what I want. Though if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears.

    The Grail Reliquae- remember the giant golden cross? Yeah, that's going to be it. I just need to look around for a decent-sized, ornate cross. But I'm sure that won't be hard to find. The real problem is finding clean-looking models in robes fitting of the priests going around with that thing. I'm thinking I might end up just getting something with the faces right and about the right build, and then just green stuff the robes onto them. Since robes/cloaks are the easiest thing with green stuff, I don't mind doing that with a whole unit. But again, I'm open to suggestions.

    Phew. I think that's everything, for now.

    Last edited by §ilent§torm; October 17th, 2005 at 08:19.
    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.

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  3. #2
    EWOP adamwelton's Avatar
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    Absolutely brilliant. I don't know a Bret player who could have done better. However if I were you I would stay away from LotR conversions as the models are slightly smaller than WH ones and you might find yourself wasting money on models you chop up to find they don't fit.

    Anyway, at least you have also stayed away from magic items which seem to be the centre of the Bret player's universe and stuck to your theme. Brets often end up like a "good" Chaos army too often for my liking. Your knights are adequately supplied with equipment and supported by some good foot choices. I like the use of the various knightly orders too. I hope your paint jobs turn out! I for one would like to see the finished models in all their livery.

    In 1992-1993 I finished a complete 6000 point High Elf army based on Tolkien's First Age of Middle-Earth (The events of "The Silmarillion"), with a full list of characters and units based on those in the history of Middle-Earth. It cost me a fortune but looked great in all it's silver, white and blue glory. Of course that was a bit different from your project. At least you have something solid to base your list and models on.

    If you are having trouble with model conversions and extra parts, look out for either Dixon Miniatures or Wargames Foundry. They're based here in the UK but with the slowing of interest in GW ripoffs, they're also very popular across the water and turn out some excellent "25mm+" medievals that you might find suitable. They have websites as well as US suppliers so you shouldn't have trouble finding them.

    Finally, 2150 points? All I can suggest is that one night someone turned up to a game session unable or unwilling to trim an extra 150 points off his or her list, and it was decided that the extra should be allowed in order to fit an extra model or two into a unit to make it a bit tastier. There was a hard and fast rule over here some years ago over here that allowed you to go over your points by 1% in order to get a complete unit in, instead of having to drop a couple of models leaving you with half a wasted rank.

    Best of luck with your efforts.
    Last edited by adamwelton; October 17th, 2005 at 09:10.
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  4. #3
    Consumate professional Sir Theobold the Lame's Avatar
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    Great idea, and will look great when its all put togethe! great to see a lot of peasants in there too- very accurate
    to make it a bit more fluffy in a warhammer sense could you put some Knights Errant in there? Although it isn't an Errantry War i'd have thought that if a Brettonaian Lord was to go Crusading a large number of the knights to heed his call would be the young hotheads anxious for death or glory
    PLAN CLAN MAN!!

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    Son of LO H0urg1ass's Avatar
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    Dude, Normally I hate the way Brets look. They just seem awfully silly to me, but the way that you describe your army sounds really really cool.

    I just saw the movie last night and now I'm looking forward to seeing your army finished.

    Keep us updated as you're working on it with some pictures and stuff, I especially can't wait to see the finished grail reliquae.

  6. #5
    Senior Member §ilent§torm's Avatar
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    Woo replies. First off, thanks for the input guys.

    Absolutely brilliant. I don't know a Bret player who could have done better. However if I were you I would stay away from LotR conversions as the models are slightly smaller than WH ones and you might find yourself wasting money on models you chop up to find they don't fit.
    That's what I was thinking. Actually, I think the scale isn't small enough to make a huge difference, the problem is WHFB heads are bigger than they should be to allow detail, whereas LotR heads are as they should be. Makes them twice as small as if it was one or the other. But that's why I asked, thanks.

    In 1992-1993 I finished a complete 6000 point High Elf army based on Tolkien's First Age of Middle-Earth (The events of "The Silmarillion"), with a full list of characters and units based on those in the history of Middle-Earth. It cost me a fortune but looked great in all it's silver, white and blue glory. Of course that was a bit different from your project. At least you have something solid to base your list and models on.
    Phew, that sounds like one insane project. I know it was a while ago, but do you have any photos floating about you could show? Sounds like a sight to see.

    If you are having trouble with model conversions and extra parts, look out for either Dixon Miniatures or Wargames Foundry.
    I will take a look into those, thanks.

    to make it a bit more fluffy in a warhammer sense could you put some Knights Errant in there? Although it isn't an Errantry War i'd have thought that if a Brettonaian Lord was to go Crusading a large number of the knights to heed his call would be the young hotheads anxious for death or glory
    You know, I did think of that. I even wrote up an Errantry War version of the list. The problem with that is Errant knights are your only core that count, and so I'd need a third unit of knights and that throws out the mounted yeomen and a trebuchet. I think I need the more elite punch of realm knights with this army, although I haven't had the chance to test it yet. That is something I'll look into down the line. I do like the Impetuous rule- as every time I fail I can say they charge because "God wills it!" Good times.

    I just saw the movie last night and now I'm looking forward to seeing your army finished.

    Keep us updated as you're working on it with some pictures and stuff, I especially can't wait to see the finished grail reliquae
    Movie is pretty good, isn't it? It got mediocre reviews from what I heard because of it's constant idea that no one was right during the crusade, and they were really just abusing the religious aspects of the war. I get where they come up with that, but I still enjoyed the movie a lot.

    I'll try and keep you guys updated. I bout a battalion, a trebuchet, and few mounted yeomen for a start. I decided to bitz order normal horses unless one of adamwelton's ideas turns out to work. The problem with that is each horse is $4 USD, which is pretty pricey when I need 18 and all. So while I think I'll be using the normal Bretonnian horses for a while, but they won't be glued down so I can test the army out.

    Again, thanks guys. Any more suggestions are more than welcome.
    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.

  7. #6
    EWOP adamwelton's Avatar
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    Briefly off-topic, I'm afraid I got shot of my Noldor army years ago before I joined the army. I've started again but the figures are going to take some time to get together so I'm giving it a miss this time, but the theme is still there. Read "The Silmarillion" and "The Book of Lost Tales" vols 1 and 2 (from "The History of Middle-Earth" by Christopher Tolkien) and see how hard it is to put an inspirational idea into action!

    Anyway, good luck with your monster project. If you're looking for heraldry, look at the Osprey range of military history books. They should provide you with the right colour plates. Most medieval history is available in europe but the US is great for getting anything you want, and not at full price.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member §ilent§torm's Avatar
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    Ok, so I think it's about time for an update.

    The core of the army is coming along nicely. I've picked up two battalions, two trebuchets, a questing knight I may or may not use as Balian, and a few mounted yeomen. I know I'm a long way off still, but I think it's coming along nicely. I still need to pick up a box of archers, a box of men-at-arms, quite a few mounted yeomen, the grail pilgrims, and characters. Price-wise, I think I'm getting close to halfway done.

    This questing knight is fairly close to how Orlando Bloom looked in the movie, so I was thinking about using that as a base of conversion (QK #6). Any thoughts?

    As for Sybilla, the Fay Enchantress isn't an awful start, but the face is that of a man. So looking at what my store has in stock from all model ranges, I was thinking of starting with this. That might take a lot more work, and it's not GW. But once she's on a GW horse, the model in its entirety will be at least 50% GW. And no, she won't have the giant axe nor be about to flash everyone.

    Speaking of horses, I'm debating whether I want to use the new Wood Elf horses for the knights/characters. Of course, the leather half-barding on some of the heads will have to filed off and puttied smooth. But that does allow for horses who look differently than the mounted yeomen's, and they are wonderfully sculpted horses. That, and each horse is half as expensive as the normal horses I'm debating them with. And $2 saved per horse is nothing to sneeze at when I need almost twenty horses. And no other horse model GW makes is even close to useful.

    The men-at-arms and archers are perfect as-is. The only thing I'm thinking of doing is modelling a few men-at-arms to have hand weapons instead of spears (axes, swords, etc.). Oh, and any ideas on either a bit or an easy way to make fifty or so spear tips? The only ideas I have are sharpening sprue bitz or green stuffing them all. Neither of which are that bad, just thought I'd see if there's anything better for the job. As for the mounted yeomen, there are fifteen different models for them! I've avoided duplicates so far, but I think I'll have to bitz order the rest to avoid any doubles. Which isn't too bad, only an extra $1.25 per model.

    And finally, the grail reliquae and pilgrims. I've thought about using 40k Imperial priests or similar models, but there's at best three models that will work. It looks like I'll be green stuffing robes onto models that have suitable heads. Seems like a lot of work, but at least there's only one unit of them. I've heard a few good ideas about the cross itself, like getting small LEDs to light it up and make it actually shine/glow. For the cross itself, I think many ornate jewelry crosses will do the trick, I just hope I don't have to shell out a ton of cash for a gold cross just because it's a perfect fit.

    Anyways, questions and comments are welcome. Thanks in advance.
    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it's wrong.

  9. #8
    Senior Member crucial's Avatar
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    woah...

    silentstorm this is a brilliant idea... BRILLIANT and its gonna take some time but it will look superb on the tabletop

    its funny because when i saw this film, afterwards i was gawping at bretonians
    it really is a perfect fit for an army

    looking forward to piccies :w00t:
    good luck
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  10. #9
    Member LordSanguinius's Avatar
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    I LOVE THIS IDEA!!!!! I saw the movie on friday, and i cant stop watching it! I love the idea of the Grail Reliquae, the Giant Golden Cross would look amazing, you could probably make it out of plasticard.

    as for the model of Balian, just use a Bretonnian Lord model, try to get one with a helmet or a chain coif on, the Legolas model not only doesnt look a lot like Bloom but the LOTR model are smaller scale than WH.And i agree with you on the horses, the ones they rode didnt have much on them, mostly because they would've died of heat exaustion ( i mean for the sake of pants, it must've been at least 95 degrees the entire time)

    another thought you might consider is adding some sand erosion on the armor, or making them look more desert-ish.

    Oh, and even though he died, Duke Godfrey so kicked ass in that movie.
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    This idea is a good one, I have been watching Kindom Of Heaven alot ever since I recently accquired it. I was thinking of something like that, but just using the crusader's colour scheme. Ie White with red crosses for the Templar Knights and Black with White crosses for the Hospitaller Knights.


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