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Would it be so strange to allow the treb to do one or both of the following? 1) Since its covered in so many lady shrines how bout giving it the blessing since it is immobile. 2) Since its a large accurate trebuchet and since it doesnt actually fire any further than other trebs like everyone claims it does, how about cut the artilliary dice results in half to represent its heavy nature and less prone to wind drift etc. 2=1, 4=2, 6=3, etc.. Seeing as how its a rare choice none of this seems too far out there, go ahead and up the cost by 10.
Wouldnt it also be fun to diversify the knights a bit and at the same time have some nominal bonus in your army for the units of knights you have to represent their unification and swelling courage etc... Knights of the realm or grail knights or some unit gains a bonus of some kind equal to the number of other knightly units on their side (KotR might get a + to WS for each unit of knights of a "rank" higher than them) or something of that nature.
I know the theme to brets is "sweet and simple" but theres no reason why these knights cant feel a little more different from each other. Perhaps give grail knights unique horses in that they are also champion horses aka 2 attacks? call them what you will but even consider giving them +mvmnt on a charge for instance
I wrote a little thread like this over in the vamp counts side and thought i'd see what most bret players thought the army was missing as far as abilities that define the brets as an army/country of people. And also to find out if there was a great way to get this information read by someone who can even do anything with the suggestions people make like this.
I think the treb is fine. cutting the artillery dice in half makes it soo much scarier! Might be possible if there is a big points hike...
We better not touch the grail knights... ppl are scared enough of them as it is!
For the Kotr, I would suggest a +1 to Ld instead.. or just allow knights of a lower rank to use the Ld of knights of a higher rank, similar to the Peasant's duty? After all, if a KE knows that there's GK around to watch them, wouldn't they go the extra mile to show off?
I do think we should get themed armies, like Parravon, Mousillon (for all those evil Brets out there), Couronne... kind of like the Space Marine chapters with their traits? That's a great system to let us build more themed armies!
It's only a lance of Grail Knights... won't hurt at all!
Ahh yes I definitely like this hoo hah about knights using the leadership of a higher ranked knight. And I have a great idea. This is totally unique and adds a VERY interesting mechanic to the game. Rank the Ld value like this: Errant=X, Kotr=x+1, QK+PK=x+2, and grail knights would actually have a whopping 10 Ld. I know it doesnt nescesarily make sense to let a unit have higher Ld than what lords can attain but it would definitely give them a VASTLY unique role in the game. Perhaps say this rank Ld thing only works within 6" just as it does with peasent duty (or amend living saints ability to say "When deciding your general, if you have a unit of grail knights you may alternately nominate the unit as a whole to act as the general, although they individually do not have the leadership talent that a lord may have developed, it is their collective courage, and mastery of tactica and their extreme unity that let them act as one voice unto the army)
You know that GK being army general idea actually works really well with the fluff! In the codex, they do mention that in general, knights of a lower order general obey the knights of a higher order... therefore, if you don't have a lord who's a GK, the grail knights could be the generals.
Hmm, instead of going with funny numbers per unit, why not amend the knightly vows? Grail vows +1 Ld, Questing +1, and KOTR +0. I'm not sure about putting PKs in the same order as the QKs, because they are just wealthier knights of the realm, and not necessarily as commited as the QKs! The Gks have the additional benefit of making units in 6" stubborn. I think otherwise, the ld upgrades are too cheap for the points.
(The fluff makes PKs seem a bit demented as well.. killing peasants for looking at their pegasi? I know peasants are cheap, but come on!)
It's only a lance of Grail Knights... won't hurt at all!
i think that the leadership thing needs to be changed. The bravest and best of all bret warriors, the lords, have a 9 leadership. A regular dwarf warrior has a LD 9?!! That doesnt make any sense! I could see why they dont want really high LD knights, because then there would be really high leadership peasents. They should make the peasents vow, use the knights LD at a -1, since they would be braver, but not as brave as a regular knight. Then they could up the LD of the knights.
I think adding special Themes based on area are awesome. Black armoured mouslilloun(?)knights immune to panic from undead, cheaper pegasus for a parravon army, the list goes on.
Another cool thing would be to add the shield+hand weapon armour save bonus to Bret knights to represent the fact that they have been trained to ride and fight on horseback almost since birth.
Which brings up something I think we all would agree should be figured in. LET CHARACTERS JOIN FLYING UNITS IF THEY'RE THE EXACT SAME THING BUT BETTER (Pegaus knights + paladins riding a royal pegasus!)
YES, finally, Domstrae has made one of the most important points, my lord on royal pegasus is the exact same size as my pegasus knights, BUT HE CAN'T JOIN THEM!!!! If you read the Big Red book, it says that the only reason flying characters cannot join flying units, but this doenst make any sense since they're the SAME SIZE!! this actually would apply to others, eg. high hero on great eagle. On another forum some on once said that the Bretonnian lord couldnt ride with a unit of peagsus since they would be better at commuicating and working toghther. I think he was just justifing the fact that a unit of pegasus knights with a lord would be a devastating force on the battlefield.
Its funny, I like a lot of the things you guys are talking about - the Ld thing sounds cool, and I'd love to see my general on his Royal Pegasus be able to join a unit of Pegasus knights, but the comment that I liked the most, and that I think has a ton of potential, hasn't really been discussed - Themed Armies.
I would love to see rules for Duchy-specific armies. Ever since I started playing Bretonnians (which was long before the new rules with the PKs came out), my army has been Parravon. There are so many different Duchies/realms, I really think you could come up with some cool rules for each, while still staying very true to the spirit behind the army.
So, any takers? First round of suggested rules?
That becomes more tough IMO. Only because that starts to deviate from the mechanics of the game a bit. Some armies are supposed to be rigid and others are supposed to have insane customization. Its hard to imagine giving Bretonnians too many custom lists without breaking the bank. If anything, most of the changes should effect the oddities of the Bretonnians. In some peasents may be organized enough to still get to move on turns in which knights and others pray and/or peasents dont cause panic to each other just as knights, and/or mounted yeomen can make the lance formation. Dont get carried away with it though.
Mounted yeomen in the lance? No thanks.. They're fast cavalry, they're not meant to just hit hard like knights. I don't think that would suit them.
It would be good for peasants to have a bit more of a viable option for a full army. Some more peasant units, and maybe heroes too. I'd love to see foot knights. Theres not really a whole lot you can do besides that..