Weapon/Item critique - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Senior Member Domstrae's Avatar
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    Weapon/Item Critique

    The Silver Lance - One of the best weapons in the game in terms of reliability. Some weapons create misc effects, some have massive damage potential but the lance is a steady balance of the offenses. Its benefit is most realized when facing an opponent that causes a -1 to hit effect or something similar. It gets the usual benefits of a lance optimizing the Bretonnians already fearsome charge. The lances cost is highly deffered by its blessing clause and is easily complimented by such things as the grail shield for a perfectly well rounded character. 9/10

    The Sword of the Quest - The standard armour piercer with a twist. Most armies get a weapon like this without the option of treating it as a great weapon. The only catch is the questing vow, which is only a disadvantage in that you cannot maximize a character with it. Where other armies would be stuck with s4 hits on tough creatures without armour, however, the bret carrying this weapon can switch to s6 attacks instead. 7/10

    The Sword of the Ladies Champion - A great sword in theory, just a bit less appealing than many other options around it. The weapon only earns its cost vs t5 creatures which the sword of heroes essentially does better (although this sword actually has an effect at all agaisnt t4 creatures). It does begin down a different power curve in that it cuts through warmachines and terrain like butter. Other than the trebuchet this is the only physical way to achieve s7+ attacks. 4/10

    The Sword of Heroes - One of the most efficiently priced weapons in the game when you use it agaisnt the right armies. Every army (even HE) has at least one t5 option, although for the most part this will mainly pretain to characters. Nevertheless, it slices through them with ease. One obvious combination is to mix this with virtue of audacitity so things like vampire counts are brought down even in a single round, just be aware of boarderline characters like butchers in the ogre army or dwarves who those two dont pretain to. 8/10

    Heartwood Lance - Another weapon thats primary effect synergizes with its already potent lance properties. A second shot at wounding is hugely supplimental. Most people overlook that the reroll is not just on a charge and since brets can use lances even in rounds they do not charge its very fine. Combining this item with the virtue of the joust may be a more expensive way to reroll hits and wounds than audacity or confidence, it is more flexible. 5/10

    Birth Sword of Carcassone - A weapon best suited for situations where you want more than a sword of might or piercing, but either dont want to spend as much for the sword of the quest or dont want the questing vow. A personal favourite of mine with this sword is it, the virtue of the idea, and the gromril great helm. It seems to cover many different fields of play for the duke and is in turn an all round knight fighter. 5/10

    Morningstar of Fracasse - An extremely superb weapon amongst all the lists. Great for winning duels outright or for anybody who likes to squeeze the most they can out of their points by having it carried by a sacrificial character to soften up a much stronger one for a second fight. For that reason and for the fact that its effect only has to happen once, its less important for this to be on a duke and can produce identical effects on a paladin. The boosted str bonus gives it a balance of offenses similar to the silver lance. A natural combination would be virtue of confidence or armour of agilulf since both give the same mix of protective offenses as the morning star. A very efficient weapon for its cost, considering what it can smash in the course of a game. 10/10

    The Lance of Artoise - Another "effect stacked on a lance" combination. This more akin to the sword of the quest than the other lances. You would hope for a killing blow agaisnt characters/humanoids but would have the higher str in case you fought non-humanoid and high toughness creatures. Of course it never hurts to have the boosted chance to wound anything. A great combination would be Virtue of Ideal and armour of fortune to maximize your odds of a KB. 4/10

    The Wyrm Lance - Pretty much the only pheaseable way to get a flame attack in the whole of the bretonnian army. The breath attack is a better than nothing plan B for when a charge fails or you'll fall short anyways. Definitely not worth it to choose over a sucessful charge, in other words. Seeing as how its effect is combined with a lance it is decent when facing high quality regenerators and for that reason I reccomend the virtue of ideal again to maximize the number of attacks possible per turn with it. 4/10

    The Gilded Curiass - Although its cost is high in comparison to some forms of regeneration, it's nature still provides heavy armour unlike some armies which reduce it to light armour or arent armour at all. Also, since Bretonnians have the blessing your looking at a great armour save, a decent ward save, and then regeneration. There are plenty of combinations to go with the armour but if your particularly paranoid go with the dragon talon and completely tick people off by nullifying those wounds that would deny you a regeneration. If you wanna theme out, stick the wyrm lance on too and you've got a pyro knight.
    7/10

    Armour of the Midsummer Sun - Cheap in comparison to some -1 to hit items. Unlike them however it includes missle fire and it does effect your mount which would be best on a royal pegasus since they are at least not large targets. One bizzare possible use for this armour is with the virtue of empathy so your on foot. And if your a single model on foot with this armour you get the -1 to be hit for being a single model on top of the armour's bonus. 5/10

    The Grail Shield - Depending on how you believe this item works it is possibly one of the best armours in the game. Assuming the proper interpretation is that the blessing itself is enhanced and so the mount of the bearer of this shield is also blessed with the improved ward save you can easily see how potent this armour can be when mounted on a hippogryph. Its relatively cheap cost lets it be combined with nearly anything else in the army. This is more a staple in my lists than any other item. 10/10

    Gromril Great Helm - Solid reliability when you know you'll be fighting an army that doesnt deny you at least an average of 4+ on your saves. If you belive you can equip this as well as an enchanted shield and the people you play with allow you, do it. Its every bit worthwhile to have the best armour save possible if your willing to invest in this item (in other words dont use a great weapon with it). 6/10

    Armour of Agilulf - Armour built for a paladin if your nit picky about getting every bit of value out of your magical items as possible. A great item for battle standards since it has a full effect with the addition of coming with a shield. 6/10

    Curiass of Fortune - A little extra offsenive edge and low cost magic item for those lords who already are protected enough from other item fields and just want to further enhance their attacks. I would reccomend this item with effects that make wounding that much more important such as virtue of knightly temper or the lance of artois. It does however, work just as well with mundane weapons. 4/10

    Orcbane Shield - If you fight orcs and dont bring this item, you're stupid. If you bring this any other time go back and read the last part of that first sentence. 3/10

    Sirienne's Locket - This item gets my stamp as the worst item in the list. I realize it still has some practical uses agaisnt none dwarf/khemri war machines (even though you get look out sir) but for the cost I think you would be better off investing in a ward save or regeneration. If it didnt include some combination of exceptions including magical attacks or each phase of a round then this pricey item would be much more worthwhile.2/10

    Token of the Damsel - Not a terrible item since it acts like a cheaper substitute to the "Ignore the first wound" item that several armies get. I dont find it all that efficient since its even less of a boost on your defense because of the blessing, and more importantly you cant put it on a caster. 3/10

    Inisignia of the Quest - Cherish this item! Its designed for a paladin though so dont stick it on your dukes (The less wounds you have to lose before it activates the better). A massive ward save and a secondary effect that can work better than Sirienne's Locket! What more can could you ask for? 8/10

    Braid of Bordeleaux - The problem I have with this item is its one use only with two abilities you will rarely need at the same time. Obviously if your playing with a pond or river as part of your terrain go ahead and use this. The thing that trips me up is if I bring an item I dont like to waste points and this seems like a general's item so that tends to limit you in ways. The other situation it might come in handy is when you fight khemri and your army may need to take a leadership from a casket going off. 3/10

    Dragon's Claw - Its hard to outright predict when fire will be a factor, lizards and dwarves seem to be the most likely to bring flaming attacks on a regular basis so thats the only time I would regularly bring this. As I previously stated however it does go well with Gilded Curiass. 3/10

    Mantle of Damsel Elena - Its nothing fancy, and it is an item you bring in response to something you predict you'll fight. Despite all that it is nice to ensure your lords in particular won't go down to a single dice roll. I would save this for situations where your riding a larger than horse mount and thus that particular model is much more important. 4/10

    Falcon-Horn of Fredemund - The more your army relys on standing back and shooting the better this item can be. Obviously it depends on if your opponent can even bring flying creatures though. A very subtle advantage the brets have that you can utilize is that our flyers have superiour land speed to basically any flyer. Combined with good positioning or possibly the marsh effect you can completely suprise the opponent by fooling him into thinking he'll have an easy charge/escape or drawing flyers into woods. 4/10

    Holy Icon - This is item is very cheaply priced compared to most armies. Its true with damsel's we already have decent anti magical capabilities, but if your opponent its too knowledgeable to target your units protected by the aura you can turn that around by even more effective counter measures. Its also good when you want to stick a combat resolution character with a combat ready paladin, the first hero can still add more threat than a regular knight on a charge while serving a higher purpose. 5/10

    The Ruby Goblet - The fact that it protects an entire unit, and that unit is likely to be knights, and the kinds of wounds it will be preventing are likely to be among the nastiest you'll face brings this item together as one of the more efficient and common to bring. A natural combo is to mix it with the chalic malfleur and that way the wound the chalice can cause could almost be used to your advantage. 6/10

    The Mane of the Pure Breed - A great one use only item I would most often stick on a damsel or prophetess so they can pitch in a little on a charge. I wouldnt stack it with too many other effects that only work on a charge unless your idea is to combine as many as possible plus add in as many effects to increase the likelihood you'll get the charge. 5/10

    Antlers of the Great Hunt - Not really one of the better items in the list for its most pure purpose. Yes its always great to wipe out a unit that your pursuing but its fairly expensive and your already in a good situation if your in a pursuit situation. It is good if your trying to end up further in your pursuit to escape being counter charged but then again this doesnt nescesarily ensure you'll be any more safe. 4/10

    Tress of Isolude - Considering the nature of the item, I have to dub this one as best used on a lord. Obviously it should be combined with another effect that makes timing of your hits crucial. Virtue of Knightly Temper is definitely the permiere ability to be included. 4/10

    Gauntlet of the Duel - Great for fighting rats just to force them to fight honourably, but in many situations when they refuse to fight that itself can help tremendously so unless you have a character just decked out for a duel and you know you can win its not the best option. Either way its cheap so for a character killer the reassurance you'll get to fight a challenge is nice. 4/10

    Potion Sacre - Sweet and simple, nothing amazing but good to tack on to a character with the extra points after more mportant items are purchased. 5/10

    Banner of the Lady - A lot of points to invest in one item for sure. Espically since it'll be on a paladin without anything extra to protect it. Plus the fact that this item wont really do anything to monsters or skirmishers or already beefy units that dont need ranks. Nevertheless its the quality your paying for, and when it is realavent its devastating. 7/10

    Valorous Standard - Reliability is something the brets are not short on. This item magnifies what they're already good at yes but when you stack a unit with characters for example, you cannot afford to have it fail you no matter how unlikely. Its not extremely cheap but on units like questing knights it might as well give the unit immune to psychology. 5/10

    Banner of Defence - If you fight an army with many warmachines I would expect to see this item without much debate to be had. Its good at what it does and serves a pretty obvious purpose. Its so effective its not a bad idea to purposefully draw fire to spare your other units. 6/10

    Conqueror's Tapestry - A must for VP games. I'd stick it in a massive unit thats going to be able to dominate the table and focus more on supporting that unit since you dont want the unit carrying this banner to go down either. 4/10

    Twilight Banner - Moving big blocks of knights to or through completely unexpected locations on the battlefield is a massive distraction if nothing else. If you really wanna throw them off, then combine it with the wolf hunts spell and you'll leave your opponent scratching his head with one hand and removing models with the other. If your terrain heavy this is almost a requirement if you rely on positioning. Since this is one of the only ways to actually suprise an opponent that the Brets can come up with, it deserves serious consideration 7/10

    Errantry Banner - 90% of my lists have at least one unit of knights errant that ALWAYS have this item. Cheap knights with a powerful charge and a better assurance that impetuous will go off, how can you turn it down? I would combine this with Virtue of ideal or mane of the pure breed to make charging even more beneficial. 8/10

    Banner of Chalons - As cheap as this banner is, it never hurts to stick it on a unit of knights you werent going to give a magic banner to in the first place. Mix it with the virtue of noble disdain or with virtue of the impetuous knight to create a themed unit or archer killers. 4/10

    Last edited by DavidWC09; November 8th, 2006 at 03:47. Reason: formatting for index

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    All I can say is WOW! & good job!

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    This critique gave me a lot of ideas for my future lists (never thought of using the morning star). The only thing is the rating for the twilight banner is high (contary to your description) cannot be used on the charge. otherwise this is one of the most helpful post i've read in a long time.

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    The Grail Shield

    Could you give me a link to the official GW FAQ, please? Because I`m quite sure that this shield affects ONLY bearer, not mount, like it is written in AB. If this shield could be able to protects mount as well, this should be written in the description of this item, like its is in the Arm of the Mid sun decript.

    PS. Very interesting summary! : )

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    Senior Member Domstrae's Avatar
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    Yeah I guess I skipped over the Twilight banner a bit too fast. Though what I edited it to is legal! Definitely feel free to put in your 2 cents when you think I'm wrong. I have just as much to learn from your opinions as you do from mine. But in regards to the Grail shield, I'll save you the trouble of looking for a clear answer from even GW because there just isnt one. There are several reasons why I and at least half the people out there think it does effect the mount though. Not the least of which is that the item improves the blessing, it doesnt provide a flat new save. This means you can lose the effect of the shield just like the regular blessing and since it is like this its effect is transitive to the mount of any rider that still has the blessing... IM CONFUSED NOW so dont ask me to clairfy

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    This means you can lose the effect of the shield just like the regular blessing and since it is like this its effect is transitive to the mount of any rider that still has the blessing... IM CONFUSED NOW so dont ask me to clairfy
    That’s why I leave it at home, if I don't understand it myself I have no hope of trying to tell my opponent what it does.

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    Ok, so my 2 cents are: ; )

    1) "In the description of the Grail Shield it specifically states that the BEARER'S Ward save gained from the Blessing of the Lady is increased. It does NOT state that the increase also applies to monstrous mounts." <--- I found this at "THE DIREWOLF WARHAMMER FAQ COMPILATION".
    Please look at the Armour of the Mid. Sun description to see the difference. In the description of the Blesing is written, that mount is affected only when raider is affected. We have two different blessings.

    2) Another thing is:
    We are not allowed to give Armour of Agilulf to the standard bearer, because this armour includes a shield.

    PS. I`m still impressed by the number of interesting combos in article. I dont know which one I should choose for the next battle : ]

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    banner of the lady 7/10? this banner is useful against any army that can pose a problem to the Brets. dwarfs? gobbos? how about a 40 man unit of highelf spearmen? the banner gives the knights the upper hand in any combat. (when combined with the +1 combat res virtue its an ace in the hole)

    9/10...

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    Senior Member Domstrae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir Roman
    Ok, so my 2 cents are: ; )

    1) "In the description of the Grail Shield it specifically states that the BEARER'S Ward save gained from the Blessing of the Lady is increased. It does NOT state that the increase also applies to monstrous mounts." <--- I found this at "THE DIREWOLF WARHAMMER FAQ COMPILATION".
    Please look at the Armour of the Mid. Sun description to see the difference. In the description of the Blesing is written, that mount is affected only when raider is affected. We have two different blessings.

    2) Another thing is:
    We are not allowed to give Armour of Agilulf to the standard bearer, because this armour includes a shield.

    PS. I`m still impressed by the number of interesting combos in article. I dont know which one I should choose for the next battle : ]
    Search the bret section of this forum and go back in its history I made a thread talking about this very subject. I even stated that I began my questioning after I went to the dire wolf forum. Basically I said they do because the effect was calculated. There are many items that alter ward saves that dont mention it through the blessing. More importantly, mounts do not have the blessing, that is very important to note. If the rider dies the mount has nothing. The rider bestows the blessing on whatever creature he rides and thus if his blessing becomes stronger, the mount would have his stronger blessing. Not because the shield is blocking things but amplifying an effect that is already present. You may also think the shield is underpriced for this but you need the grail vow and its effect can be lost in just the same manner as the blessing. In other words it does have serious drawbacks. Plus, though I dont hold any value to quick service over the phone, one person in the old thread post that he called GW and got a reply that it was how the item worked. Read up.

    Quote Originally Posted by userpaladin
    banner of the lady 7/10? this banner is useful against any army that can pose a problem to the Brets. dwarfs? gobbos? how about a 40 man unit of highelf spearmen? the banner gives the knights the upper hand in any combat. (when combined with the +1 combat res virtue its an ace in the hole)

    9/10...
    lol, except that its too rigid and expensive. I dont particularly like dumping that many points into an item if its gone when I flee. Of course its very powerful but it doesnt always have an effect on what your fighting. See what I gave 8s 9s and 10s to. All of these items fit pefectly into any sized games and can be used without waste with pretty good assurance. That or they are highly underpriced compared to a similar item from other armies. If I used a narrow judgement when I rated it, then I should've given the orc shield a 10 just because for the price you pay you can potential ruin a persons entire army. Besides there are already ways to eat through rank bonus and if they're bringing a 40 spearman unit to the table you better be trying to get the flank on it anyways. If you do get a flank on a unit a simple warbanner is much better.

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    I was curious, did anyone ever contact GW and get an official answer on the Grail Shield?

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