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Here are a few oddball questions I need answered.
Is there any reason why Pegasus Knights cant line up in lance formation whem they hit a unit? (I have never thought they could but I've never heard a particular justification for why they cant)
I get yelled at a LOT for saying my pegasus knights cant be killing blowed, but according to the rules regarding the ability to seperate a model into a man sized model or not it qualifies for exemption.
Do you think Questing knights function better in regular formation than lance?
Rules-wise, because they are flyers and flyers don't have a formation because they skirmish. Fluff-wise, I'm not really sure. I guess it would be a greater difficulty to fly and hold formation than run on the ground and do it. They are horses with wings, not F-16's .Originally Posted by DomstraeThats a tough one. I could really find rules for regular calvary in the rule book but let me shoot from the hip on that one. I think that killing blow will work (though I would just assume it didn't) because you are technically attacking the rider which is a "man-sized opponent" (which is the lovely vague wording in my rule book).Originally Posted by DomstraeThat would depend on the size of your unit and the type of the unit you are going against. Against anything unbreakable I would rank them up like normal. If you think will get more attacks and think you can break a unit in the first go round, I would leave them in lance. I had actually never thought of putting my questing knights in regular formation. I kind of want to try it. I also kind of think lance shouldn't work if you don't have a lance. Though there are nothing in the rules that say that.Originally Posted by Domstrae
My intuition says PKs cannot use lance formation, since PKs are skirmishers. When skirmishers are in combat, the rulebook says to line them up as if they were a regular unit, though they are still technically considered to be skirmishing. So, I suppose you could line up the PK's in such a way as to appear to be in lance formation, but they would not actually be in lance formation, as they are still considered skirmishing.Is there any reason why Pegasus Knights cant line up in lance formation whem they hit a unit? (I have never thought they could but I've never heard a particular justification for why they cant)PK's can be killing blowed. As above stated, the actual knight model is man-sized. Moreover, the Pegasi themselves are horse sized, just with wings, so the only difference between a PK and a regular mounted knight is that one has wings and the other doesnt. If someone had a winged chaos warrior, would you buy the argument that he wasn't susceptable to Killing Blow?I get yelled at a LOT for saying my pegasus knights cant be killing blowed, but according to the rules regarding the ability to seperate a model into a man sized model or not it qualifies for exemption.First things first, I think Questing Knights are amazing. Aside from PKs, they may very well be my favorite bretonnian unit. Against most non-human enemies, brets are going to be going last in combat (save on the charge), so in my mind, QK are just knights with the added bonus of +2S always, rather than simply on the charge.Do you think Questing knights function better in regular formation than lance?
This all being said, to answer your question, no, I don't think QK are better in regular formation. In lance formation, they are destructive on the charge, and if they don't break the enemy unit there, they've normally done so much hurt that they don't stand in much danger from then on.
I'll edit this response in full detail later but as to the PKs being killing blowed I have to add the following: The rules say you cant KB a model that cant be seperated from a base down to a man sized base. Read the stats on the PK and notice half the pegasus stats are missing, this to me signifies they cannot be seperated and thus not killed.
The only stats that are missing for Pegasi are toughness and wounds, and I think the only reason they don't have those is so that everyone understands that, unlike Royal Pegasi, there is never a situation in which a regular Pegasus could be alive without its rider. That gives even more reason to think that you can KB a PK. PK's are to be treated more like regularly mounted knights than knights riding monsters.
I'll give it to you that the rules are unclear, but I think this is one of those common sense things, and common sense says you can KB them.
Its a fact that serves both our arguments though. Think about it this way. Centigors have man sized praportioned upper torso's and thus I would say their organs in that area are likewise just as vulnerable, however they cheat the rules that common sense would other wise say..."Cutting off a centaurs human sized head is just as bad for him as it is for a human" Mechanics wise in game terms killing such an expensive model in its entirety (because you are losing the significant pegasus attacks in the process) doesnt seem right at all, and granted thats exactly what happens with regular knights but in that case they DO give the horse stats. Frankly I'm not going to let someone KB my knights if it follows the rules because this is GW not balancing things properly or clairfying some farirly expectable questions.
Like I said before, I see your point. I think the difference between you and I (perhaps) is that you seem to play in more serious circles, while I tend to only play with my friends. I could never justify pulling a move like that on a friend, and my common sense tells me you can KB a Pegasus Knight. So if I were to actually argue with them about it, it would make me into a pretentious jerk.
I can see, however, how that might change if you're playing a serious game with people you don't know that well.
ohh come on here... u can obiously KB a PK...its agreed that u are attacking the rider and not the moutn correct? the PK doesnt count as a monsterous mount does it? then why cant u kill the rider wiht a KB. u arent killing the pgasus so its ridicoulous..u are using unclear rules to take advantage of a situation.
Actually I'm taking a half-assed rule system for what its worth. Except this time instead of it not making since in the other direction (as in why you can poision a bone giant) I'm using the blanket rule to explain why you cant KB a PK. The fact of the matter is most of the things that go on in WHF dont nescesarily make any sense, but there has to be a breaking point between what does make sense and what keeps the game in balance. So ask yourself why for instance, a design team would exclude things bigger than human size from being KB. It is most likely because they realize anything like that will probably cost several times more per model than anything that is not. The fact that they say its because the organs or vitals of these larger creatures are less vulnerable or whatever it is YOU use to explain it comes second.
Now for the last point I'll make in my explination for why they cant be killing blowed. If you have the bret book look at the stat lines on the PK, and the way they're broken up. The only other model they closely resemble because of their broken lines in stats is the chariot. This is a unit with multiple wounds driven by a man sized model but the model as a whole doesnt have a full stat line, which is a very similar case indeed. For an example lets use the high elf chariot which comes with higher toughness than what regular elves can ever achieve. This signifies to me that theres more being hit here than just the rider and indeed its true. So I know for a fact you cannot KB a chariot UNLESS there is a character being ridden by one to target. That being said, PKs have higher toughness than regular humans, in fact they are the only bret model (besides characters) that get any kind of increased toughness, which makes them more akin to the royal pegasi's statline. In either case just like the chariot the models cannot be seperated and more is being involved in the fight than just the rider (which is why it has multiple wounds). If what I say is true and you agree thus far, then you cannot argue with the rules designed for killing blow.
Last edited by Domstrae; January 8th, 2006 at 17:00.
End of discussionQ. Does killing blow work against Pegasus Knights?
S. Anthony Reynolds - Warhammer Design Team (Online Q&A
on the Games Workshop Warhammer Forum)
Use Light, Beasts, Metal instead of Heavens
NecroLords: Use at least one Death Mage
Brets: Use Peasants&Damsels
Skaven: Don't use Skryre SAD