Question about the Green Knight - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Nell2ThaIzzay's Avatar
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    Question about the Green Knight

    Apologies if this has already been covered on here.

    The Green Knight, I believe it is, has an ability that he can disappear at any point during the game during his movement phase, and reappear within 6 inches of natural terrain anywhere else on the board. Or something like that, I'm not exactly sure, because I don't play Bretonnians, I play Vampire Counts.

    But my question is because last night at my local Games Workshop, I played a game against a Bretonnian opponent who was using the Green Knight. On turn 2 or so, he was able to make the Knight appear on the board behind my lines, in which I used an Invocation of Nehek to summon a regiment of Skeletons to charge the Knight, as to keep the Knight from charging my units from the rear.

    Well, my opponent used the ability to make the Green Knight disappear out of combat, to reappear somewhere else. Now my question is, can the Green Knight actually leave COMBAT?

    My opponent said the wording said "At any point during the game, during the Knight's movement phase"

    I myself took that to mean on any of his turns, and more than once, seeing as though it doesn't say "Can even leave combat", the official rules say that a character may never leave combat, and the Skaven lead from the back rule specifically states that a character leading from the back may leave a unit that even has been engaged in close combat (when characters in the back rank of a unit engaged in combat otherwise would not be able to).

    The 2 other players that were there as well agreed that the way the rules are worded would indicate that the Knight could not leave combat. But my opponent was adamant that it could, and we asked the manager at Games Workshop, who seemed very unsure of the ruling, and has been wrong before, but made the ruling that the Knight could indeed leave combat.

    Now my question to you is, can he? Or was my interpretation (and the interpretation of every other player there last night) correct, and the GW guy didn't know what he was talking about (which, again, has happened to me before on more than one occassion)

    I have a friend who plays Bretonnians whose army isn't complete yet, but when it is, I will be playing him regularly, so this is a rule I'd like to know. The GW manager also said to research the rule, as he was unsure of it, he was only making the ruling because of the backstory of the Green Knight.

    Warhammer Fantasy: Vampire Counts | Wood Elves | Chaos

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  3. #2
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    Can teleport spells be used on units in combat? Because the ability is esstentially a teleport spell.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Domstrae's Avatar
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    Whow you know I've never thought of that, and I spend a lot of time interpruting the bret book. Frankly it never does say he cannot do this if hes in close combat. In fact I just read it and am pretty sure I saw an "anytime". One would think they did not intend to allow this though but then again I've been wrong before. I would let them, just because there actually are items/spells that warp you out of close combat so there is presidence. As long as they dont clairify it somewhere it seems legal.

  5. #4
    Son of LO strewart's Avatar
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    Well, it doesn't say he can't do it from combat just at any time so I would also say yes. However, it does say he needs to already be in a natural piece of terrain, or move into one. So if the combat is on open ground, he is stuck.
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    Just because the rules don't say you can't do something does not mean you can Because the rules don't say that I can't declare myself the winner in every game before it starts does not mean I can do it and win every game. The base rule is that they can't leave combat. If a special ability allows a player to contradict a basic rule it most explicitly state that. A good example is the Enchanted shield. If it just said that you get a 5+ armour save. You can't then assume it can be combine with other magic armour (even though it would make sense) you need the line "can be combine with other magic or mundane armour" (or something to that affect, I don't have it in front of me). Which to me means the "Guardian of the Sacred Sites" rule cannot be used while he is in combat. And tell him if he has a problem with that, he shouldn't be such a sally and just take +d6 attacks and smoke your summoned undead
    Last edited by The Green Knight; January 16th, 2006 at 08:07.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Domstrae's Avatar
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    But where are you getting that from? I'm 99% sure the Green Knight's ability is unique in case. I dont think you can say it has any true duplications. Its not a spell, its not a movement (though it occurs in the movement phase) Its not like it requires line of sight. And its not like it requires the kind of range to concentrate like a magic missle or a mundane missle weapon.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Evan8433's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Green Knight
    Just because the rules don't say you can't do something does not mean you can Because the rules don't say that I can't declare myself the winner in every game before it starts does not mean I can do it and win every game. The base rule is that they can't leave combat. If a special ability allows a player to contradict a basic rule it most explicitly state that. A good example is the Enchanted shield. If it just said that you get a 5+ armour save. You can't then assume it can be combine with other magic armour (even though it would make sense) you need the line "can be combine with other magic or mundane armour" (or something to that affect, I don't have it in front of me). Which to me means the "Guardian of the Sacred Sites" rule cannot be used while he is in combat. And tell him if he has a problem with that, he shouldn't be such a sally and just take +d6 attacks and smoke your summoned undead
    Ok WRT the shield yeah it does say it can be combined, read the big rulebook where the actual description of the common magic items are.

    I personally wouldn't he couldn't teleport out of combat if it didn't say "anytime". "Anytime" would lead one to assume they actually mean anytime. If it just said teleport in the movement phase it wouldn't be allowed because since it does not specifically say can teleport out of combat but since it does say "anytime" he should be able to do so.

  9. #8
    Member Sotek's Avatar
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    i would say that he cant because i dont see it anywhere that he can disappear at anytime it says that he has to be in natural terrain so if he wasnt then he is still in that combat

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    Senior Member Domstrae's Avatar
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    I dont think anybody is disputing that if hes going to leave CC using this ability, that the battle has to take place on natural terrain.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Evan8433's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sotek
    i would say that he cant because i dont see it anywhere that he can disappear at anytime it says that he has to be in natural terrain so if he wasnt then he is still in that combat
    Since it doesn't say anytime and doesn't specifically say may do so in CC there's no reason for it to come before the rule that says you can't leave combat is there?

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