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I am about to play a few games against Vampire counts. I have searched this forum and dont seem to be able to find any info about them. I have never faced VC's and dont know the first thing about them. I have played Brettonians for a while and have a balanced army list not really lacking any where.
I prefer to use M@A with a Paladin using the Vitue of empathy with anything else that takes my fancy. I have no idea what my opponent will be using but he has faced my army many times in the past. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
The main features of the VC army is pathetically bad combat fighting units, they won't kill anything, very powerful magic, extremely strong characters, and the whole army is unbreakable.
The biggest weakness is in the general and magic. They can only march if they are within 12" of the general, and if he dies the whole army will begin crumbling.
So you may want to assign a suicide general hunter to your army, maybe a paladin on a pegasus or something like that. Something fast and hard hitting, to get into combat, direct attacks, then flee or die. This probably won't work if his general is a beefed up vampire though, only if its a necromancer. What size is the battle? If under 2k, use a hunter, if over probably don't.
Get your magic defence pretty strong, because they will have a hell of a lot of magic and it is very good magic. Use speed to your advantage, undead are slow, so get on their flanks.
Combat resolution is something you must look out for pretty closely. Don't just charge your knights into a big block headfirst, because you will win that round but they won't run anywhere, magic will just boost numbers and swamp you next round. Make sure you hit flanks and do combined charges.
A unit of skirmsh archers might not be a bad idea, VC have no shooting so you could try to reduce their numbers a bit at range. Zombies are pretty soft targets.
Oh yeah, they all cause fear too. So if you do take peasants, make sure they have leadership benifits from somewhere or they're not going to do anything.
Thanks very much for the advice. Its going to be an epic game ,approx 3000 pts!
Looking forward to it should have my new general on Hyppogriff tomorrow ,looking forward to painting it:yes:
What magic works best against VC's?
Last edited by Lord Maxton; October 16th, 2006 at 14:52.
I play VC and Brettonians are preety easy to beat for VC. There are a few thing to keep in mind.
First of all be patient. VC don't have any shooting and hardly and destructive magic. Make sure you have the all killing charge before you take on big blocks of skellies. Then I would hunt for the general. I would actually sacrefice multiple characters to kill him. You kill the vampire early in the game and you will win. If you are lucky and the vampire is in black knights and you just need to get a flank on them where the vampire is not in combat. Brets can then kill the vamp on combat res and even if you don't kill him on the charge then he can't re-raise them.
The biggest thing you will want to watch for is dire wolves. They will redirect your units and deny you charges and if you charge them they will make you expose your flanks. Take 2 or 3 units of archers to take out the wolves.
Take trebuckets to keep the skellie numbers down till you can charge them.
If you are playing against Strigio vamps which is pretty common then I would say take the green knight. Strigio cannot take any weapons and thus they cannot hurt the green knight. Thus making them perfect to hunt for vampires. I would actually consider taking the green knight anyway as most vampires spend their points on blood line powers and not on magic weapons (not many good ones anyway). Also when you charge his unit make sure you combine it with a lance of knights so you don't lose your green knight on combat res.
challange with the green knight and make sure you position him so the vampire is the only one that can accept the challange.
Further a good idea is to bring 2 damsels and load them up with dispel scrolls and the silver mirror. Use the mirror on the vampire in the turn before you are planning to charge him. This will give you a good chance to put an wound on him making it easier to kill him.
As already said, the key to beating the undead is their characters. ANYONE (and i do mean anyone) can beat their core infantry.
I would recommend investing in some questing knights, as they have a lot more power in drawn out combats than lance-equipped cavalry. They can also re-roll psychology. In fact, i would definately recommend taking as many Knights Errant as possible, since they ignore psychology on the turn they charge.
As for your character hunter, here's what you will need:
35 points for the Virtue that lets you reroll hits and wounds in a challenge
35 points for the lance that gives killing blow (which IIRC works every turn, not just on the turn you charge)
20 points for the tress of isoulde (to make sure you hit him)
10 points for the enchanted shield.
Now get on your barded warhorse. You'll have a 1+ armor save, and have a damn good chance of landing some killing blows on him.
Since you're playing 3000 points, I'd also take at least two level ONE damsels (their magic isn't worth the points to spend higher). Ideally, I'd take one for each large knight unit you have. I'd recommend beasts college, since the default spell will turn one of your characters into a horror show (imagine casting that on your BSB!). Load them up with dispell scrolls. I'd recommend 3 scrolls and the chalice that gives you an extra dispel die. You MUST not let him raise undead behind your army.
I would also recommend a largish (20 or so) unit of skirmished archers to stay back in your deployment zone and shoot any undead units that are raised behind your army. Keeping a couple of 20 man M@A units in reserve will help to countercharge the inevitable flank attacks on your main lances.
As for tactics, I would suggest you take 2-4 largish units of knights (9-12 models) and run them down the center (towards his "main" units). Keep LOTS of small knight units (5-6 men each) on the flanks to deal with his fast flankers. They are also very useful for flanking HIS units if you get the chance. Put the damsels inside the main units to fill them out and provide the unit with magic resistance.
IMHO, the key to winning with Bretonnia is to pick your target at the beginning of the battle and then run it down with everything you can. Ignore the small stuff (with your main units).
I would not recommend taking Pegasus knights. Against the undead, their leadership isn't reliable enough for them to act on their own. IF you take them, then buy a pegasus for your lord and run him with them, but I still don't think it's a good idea against them.
Questing knights are a much better buy against the undead, IMHO.
the adivse given on vamps lords is very solid-Kill the head of the snake the bodiy dies
-it dusts the army-
if your having trouble getting to him, here are some classic traps used on brets that can be devasting to new players:
two units about mabey 15-20 zombies each- right in the middle yelling hey charge me-zombies are cheap and need like 6' to hit you
(zombies are raise easier and more of them then skellies)
they want to bait the charge like its a strong front- yes your knights will kill easy 10-12 a round and mabey looes one if you roll crappy, and hes lucky-and youll win by combat res and there go 3-5 if you do it right. you must kill all it only takes one zombie to raise another 6-12 and your stuck there the game. i usted to play slyvania- and that was the stragity. i won most of the time. all my magic was constrated on raiseing the dead. avoid these guys like the plague. just avoiding them is frustrating to the VC player. they cant catch you- and with a movement of 3- thay can be delt with at a later time- kill with the trunch- or bowmen- dont strong arm these till other threats are delt with-or are crunbling
fell bats= watch these guys- dont fall for the air battle with the peg nights- have your peg knight ingnore them and go for there lord or what ever other tasks you have planed.fell bats are underraited- i would have two units of 5- one flanking the other- and hunt war meachines-tie them up with your M@A they should be able to handle any # of these by winning from the combat res alone- they crumble when they loose combat. have a unit of M@A parked near the trench- fell bats can make or break the VC army if used correctly- these guys are good hunters.
black knights - black choach= tear them to shreads and keep them away from your M@A and bowmen- theyll plow thru your M@A and archers-THE FEAR FACTOR- theses are the guys you want to strong arm- the knight LD will pull you through- but they can werck mad havoc on RNF troops.
dire wolves= think of these as unarmored light cav- shoot them down with bowmen as there going to likely the first to draw blood due to there speed.they get bonuses on the charge- take that away and you get them good. slyvania army can raise these too. again it depends on the bloodline as mentioned by another. the last thing you want is a unit of 3-6 of these guys runnign around dening you rank bonus. and thats exactly just what i used them for.
VC arnt like brets at all where you have strong troops that can take damage and keep running- VC plan on there troops dying and raising them later when needed-
save your dispell scrolls for the words "dance Macob" this spell will suck for you bad if it goes through its a movement spell, and takes away what your counting on there slow movement- "hellish vigor" is another thats going to be a bad word. it gives the zombies/skellies steroids basicly. "curse of years" is bad but expensive and must reamin in play- i would cast it on a unit near the war meachines to clear a path for the bats. you might consider letting it go thru, itll tie up the caster and is hard to pull off correctly. some one sneaky might cast the first, just to get you to use up the dispell scroll, then raise zombies. watch there casting dice it will let you know when to dispell.
my two cents
luck be for the lady tonight,
As many other brave generals has concluded:
There are two options: either A) Kill his general early on in the game or Ignore him and defeat the rest of his army and hope for a minor victory
Either way, I would go heavy shooting in this list. 3 or 4 medicore-sized blocks of bowmen would work fine. (Spending 400 - 500 points on bowmen wouldn't be too radical) Take 3 Trebuchets, since Grail Knights aren't essentially needed due to the lack of elite troops your opponent posses. KoTR can easily take them on if needed. At least two Errant Knight units would be a great smash to the immune to psychology. The above setups for a hunter is great. Just remember to watch out for static CR which Brets seem to perform poorer on than other armies.
WHFB: Warbands/Border Patrol
3000 points? Wow, VC are very strong at that level. Undead are an army that get better and better as the army gets bigger.
I'd definitely take the green knight at 3k, he is fantastic for his points.
At this level, you will almost certainly be facing a Vampire Lord. Chances are even a supped up character hunting Bret lord will struggle to bring one down, unless it is Necrarch or possibly Lahmian. What I would do is assign a couple of units to do the job, yes several whole units for one character is worth it. What you would want to do is hit the unit that the general is in from the front and flank or rear (or both if possible) at the same time, and make the lord crumble from combat resolution. That has a far better chance of working than trying to kill him in one on one combat.
Take a BSB with banner of the lady, and maybe a paladin or even a lord, have them lead two large units of knights (any kind should do), soften the general's unit up a bit with shooting if you can, then charge him from two sides. With that banner, and all the kills you get, it should be enough to drag him down..
It might not be the easiest task manouvring them into position, but it would definitely be worth it. Destroying a very expensive character, a good magic user, and starting his army crumbling is well worth two full units being distracted for a while and the loss of whatever the vampire manages to kill. If its blood dragon, expect to lose up to 3 or 4 knights from one round of his attacks.
Just a question. Im going to be facing VC really soon in a 500pt escalation league and im wondering how to deal with them. I know all the basic stuff (kill the general, Heavy on magic. unbreakable units, etc.). its just i dont know how to deal VC characters. How do i take em out with no more than 500pts?
For the Lady and the King of Bretonnia!