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Now that a lot more of our magic needs LoS damsels dont really fit in that middle space anymore. I'm praying to the lady that we get a rules update that doesnt block their LoS from that space or some kind of solution because damsels arent meant to lead a lance charge. My wacky idea was to do away with them or turn them into knights themselves but I dont think we're looking at that kind of radical change. Anyways back to the point, have you been sticking them with unusual units like reliquary? Even that doesnt seem like enough. One bizzare option would be a trebuchet so you would have a war machine with MR. How often would that really happen though? My point is I dont want to stick my queen with my pawns (peasants). Arent there some kind of allies we can take now? I thought I remembered a giant in a WD drawn up as a bretonnian one but is that an option? I know fenbeasts are and though I cant remember if you can put a character with them or not, it would be interesting.
I don't think things are as bleak as you might think. Many of the spells available to Damsels & Prophetesses are still useful, or as useful as they were under the previous rules. Breakdown of the 18 spells:
9 spells don't require line of sight.
(Heavens: Amul, Comet; Life: Marsh, Wood, Gift, Stone; Beasts: Oxen, Beast, Wolf)
3 spells can be cast on the unit the Damsel is in.
(Heavens: Portent, Shield; Life: Wind)
5 spells can't be cast if the Damsel is in the center of the unit.
(Heavens: Lightning, Thunder; Life: Rain; Beasts: Crow, Hunter)
The Bear's Anger is a bit strange because it can't be cast on any of your riding heroes, making its utility questionable at best. However, 1/2 of the spells your Prophetess can cast & seven of the twelve spells your Damsel can cast without line of sight. Additionally, if you're OK with using your Prophetess/Damsel to boost only the unit she's in, those ratios go up to 3/4 each.
If you absolutely need line of sight, remember that your characters can leave the unit during the movement phase & reenter the unit by moving into contact with it. Thus, you may be able to duck your Damsels in and out of the unit and may be able to limit their exposure to charges & shooting. As a final alternative, you could put a Prophetess onto a Pegasus, and avoid limitations on her line of sight that way.
As for allies that can be used, Bretonnians can not hire Dogs of War.
Hope that helps,
Bad Hat Harry
I hadnt considered the breakdown and for the most part thats reassuring. The variable your forgetting is the , well, variable. Now that being said what other armies are in an absolute struggle for their spells? We have such a narrow degree of every spell having some use. In any event Brets can take Fenebeasts, truthsayers, and dark emmissaries. The only thing that I thought was dubious was giants under the new rules for them.
Harry's analysis is fine for mage lords who can take Heaven's magic.
For the lower level sorceresses, the only option IMHO is to take life magic. The default spell for Beasts is unusable for mounted models, and thus is for all intents and purposes completely worthless in the Bretonnian army. That, combined with the fact that there are a couple of LOS only spells in Beasts, means that it isn't worth the gamble taking it.
Life's default spell, on the other hand, rocks. Nothing like slowing down your opponent so he can't get off that killer flank charge. You can even now cast it into close combat (something you couldn't do before), so they'll flee half distance, almost guaranteeing you'll run them down.
The other Life spells are ok, but for a low level sorceress might be too expensive to cast.
To be honest, sorceresses are necessary in the Bretonnian army only for their magical defenses. They go great in a unit of knights (MR 1 is awesome). Take a level 1 sorceress, load them up on defensive magic items (like dispel scrolls), and then role on the Life magic chart knowing full well you're probably going to revert to the default spell.
One thing to remember about the sorceress is that she's going to take the place of a knight in any unit she's with. So you can drop 20-38 points off her cost once you buy her. So a fully equipped level 1 sorceress is a bit over 100 points (120 or so), but once you deduct the cost of the knight she's replacing, she comes down to 100.
Not to bad for 50 points of magic items and MR of 1 for your unit.
I tend to agree that GW really didn't think through Bretonnian magic. In a way, I kinda wish they used rules similar to the Priests of Sigmar in the Empire book, with a primarily magical defensive focus with some bound spells to help the unit during a charge. That would have been a little more in keeping with the idea that Bretonnian magic is not very powerful.
Yeah but Brets are already in that grey area known as "Just because they're extremely good doesnt mean they're broken". Its hard enough to convince them not to nerf us. So trying to convince someone our magic needs help before the lance gets a debuff is hard to do. Don't even think about mentioning arrow formation :cry:
P.S. We need light magic back
I don't think the Bretonnians are "broken" in 7th edition. Yeah, the lance got somewhat more powerful (or rather, everyone else has to pay 20% more for their rank bonus and Bretonnia does not).
But who cares? It's not like everyone was fielding 16 man units before. Besides, even in 6th edition, if you got charged by a 12 man lance, the receiving unit was either completely screwed, or was stubborn/unbreakable in which case the Bretonnians were completely screwed.
Tell me what changed there?
I'm not a big fan of the idea that when something is "broken" (and it's MHO that the Bretonnian spell lists are), just because the army is GOOD doesn't mean that the broken rules shouldn't be addressed.
PS- by saying the magic lists are "broken" I do NOT (and I repeat DO NOT) think that means it needs to be more powerful. The problem with Bretonian spell choices as it stands now is there is really only ONE choice for low-level Bretonnian sorceresess (as I mentioned in my post above). That's just plain silly. Please explain to me fluffwise why Bretonnian sorceresses would bother to learn spells that are completely useless to them in battle?
Last edited by Rameusb5; December 5th, 2006 at 13:16.
I couldnt agree with you more. I honestly wanted to see them do away with damsels. Give our paladins all a little magic. Perhaps only light magic for paladins (start at zero add level 1 plus the aura with MR) and then maybe bret lords with heavens or something of that nature. In any event yes we need better magic or to just let damsels draw LOS from the center. Simple as that.
Right on with the stubborn or bust scenario. And it didnt even affect some of the more difficult things we'll face such as tree lords or things of that nature.
I dont really put any consideration into the damsels need for LoS or even ability to cast spells (IF they do its a bonus).
IMO, Brets shouldnt be wasting point on trying to take enough magic to get off successful spells. That type of magic use is more reserved for the elven, chaos & slaan armies.
I only take a low level damsel with either: a dispel scroll & Chalice of Malfleur. Or the Silver mirror.
In others words, its only really for magic defense. Not dominating amounts of offensive magic. In which case LoS is totally irrelevant.
Dark Elves - Game #28 vs High Elves: Draw
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