[1500] Blazing Infernos - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Member Chaeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    [1500] Blazing Infernos

    Hi!

    I've been reading stuff on this forum for quite a while and now I am requesting your help and your knowledge.

    This is my chaos space marine force:

    HQ : 350 pts
    1 Demon Prince : Slaanesh + wings + Lash of submission = 155
    1 Sorcerer : Disc of Tzeentch + Tzeentch + doombolt + warptime = 195

    TROOPS : 749
    5 Chaos Space marines = melta gun + aspiring champion + power fist = 125
    Rhino = 35
    5 Chaos Space marines = melta gun + aspiring champion + power fist = 125
    Rhino = 35
    5 Chaos Space marines = plasma gun + aspiring champion + power fist + melta bombs = 135
    Rhino = 35
    8 Berserkers = aspiring champion + power weapon + melta bombs = 224
    Rhino = 35
    HEAVY SUPPORT : 400
    2 Obliterators (150)
    Vindicator = 125
    Vindicator = 125
    TOTAL : 1499
    Lots of vehicules ^^
    What i intend to do is as follows:
    - the Demon prince moves ennemy units and then goes into cc with something he can take on. I cab sacrifice him to stop the elite cc units the ennemy has for a few turns.
    - the sorcerer supports the army and tracks ennemy commanders to instant kill them (force weapon ^^)

    - the 2 meltatroops first hunt down vehicules and then go to cc. I think they can do some damage.
    - the plasmatroop hunts space marines and then cc (Oo wow, different than the melta ones!! 8X)
    - the berserks act like sort of "elite close combat"

    - the obliterators fires at everything...
    - the vindicators act like a moral breaker on the ennemie, i don't thing they are gonna survive long, but, if they shoot, they kill :happy:

    So, i was wondering:
    more plasma?
    not good in cc?

    Thanks.

    Chaeron

    Last edited by Chaeron; August 26th, 2007 at 22:04.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Topic Creator Deluxe Mr_Wayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Uppsala / Sweden
    Age
    34
    Posts
    2,146
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    225 (x7)

    Hey dude. It's okay to post the total points cost of a unit, but not the points cost of individual miniatures, weapons, upgrades and vehicles.
    This will be changed if you dont do it yourself.

  4. #3
    Senior Member BDThrall89's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    28
    Posts
    394
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    7 (x1)

    Chaeron, first I welcome you to the forums. And now to begin work on your list.

    I see that your army kinda is relying too much on your beserkers to be the cc monsters of the army, something that is good in armies where cc is scary to us all (guard, tau, guard.) You have alot more potential with trying to balance it out with two squads being there for fire support, which is where I'd put the sorceror. Leaving the other two and the Daemon Prince there for close combat. After that I'd probably put the two vindicators on the flanks and the Obliterators between the two fire support squads.

    Other than that, I really can't see any truely big problems other than the fact you have a Daemon Prince with the mark of Slaanesh being allowed beserkers. Now granted I haven't seen the new codex yet. But when I get my hands on it then I'll probably be able to make a even more accurate assessment of your army here.
    I'll be damned before the soldiers of the Emperor are just left to rot!
    Last words of Colonel Densit from the Rahaxin 19th

    "DISS NOT THE EMPEROR'S POINTED STICK, HERETIC!"

    If it doesn't work with the Emperor. Then it's been officially Karmooned!!!

    BEWARE THE POWER OF THE LIGHT-BRIGHT!

  5. #4
    Member Chaeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    I am really sorry for the points, my mistake.

    Thanks for repplying so fast! ;?

    So you comments:

    I see that your army kinda is relying too much on your beserkers to be the cc monsters of the army, something that is good in armies where cc is scary to us all (guard, tau, guard.)
    A second unit of berserkers? never thought of it! Could be a good idea. but the cost of the unit makes me think twice (i know they r pretty powerful but...).

    You have alot more potential with trying to balance it out with two squads being there for fire support, which is where I'd put the sorceror.
    When you say fire support squads, you mean havocks or normal chaos space marines with more special weapons? By the way, in the new codex, they have to be 10 to have 2 special weapons. So if i do as you say, put 2 special weapons, where can i find the point for 1 more squad of berserkers and for 2 squads of fire support? i can loose the aspiring champions to make bigger squads but then i loose their cc impact. And if i want to make 2 good fire support squads, i'll have to give up 2 of my rhinos which means less target for the ennemy, so it's more dangerous for my vehicules. Hum, gotta think on this one!

    But i agree with you, i lack fire support!


    Other than that, I really can't see any truely big problems other than the fact you have a Daemon Prince with the mark of Slaanesh being allowed beserkers. Now granted I haven't seen the new codex yet. But when I get my hands on it then I'll probably be able to make a even more accurate assessment of your army here.
    In the new codex, they aren't ennemies any more! (not friends either...) but i keep the number of khorne for my guys! My sorcerr is Tzeentch...

    Chaeron

  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    with Alice
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,843
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    946 (x8)

    It looks as though your army is trying to bring to the table more units that it can support, cost-wise. For one thing, you're paying 160 point for a 5 man marine squad that can move 12" then shoot a single melta gun. This isn't very cost efficient. Second, you only have 4 wounds protecting each power fist. A c.c. enemy unit has a good chance of crushing these squads before your fist has a chance to go off. For this kind of army, you'll need at least 3 marine squads in rhinos- either 2 basic marines with meltas + 1 zerker, or the other way around. Normally, I'd recommend taking no less than 4 maine squads, but you've got other things you're trying to do.

    HQ: At the 1500 point level, it's difficult to field two expensive hq's and not have it weaken the remainder of your build. Your sorcerer is way overpriced for what he does- both at range and c.c.. You can get another prince that has roughly the same c.c. tricks for a fraction of the cost, or, you can use a sorcerer devoted more towards the ranged elements. These duel purpose hq's don't work in armies less than 2000 points when coupled with a second hq. It just gets too expensive. Makes sense?

    Vindicators: These pups are kill on sight for well nigh all opponents. For this reason, they need more staying power, i.e., daemonic possession. At 125 points per tank, they're cheap enough to warrant this defensive upgrade, which will literally in some cases double their staying power (seriously). However, you can't afford all of these suggestions without making a few compromises. The first and most obvious one would be to drop your sorcerer and use those points to strength the remainder of your build.
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  7. #6
    Member Chaeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    It looks as though your army is trying to bring to the table more units that it can support, cost-wise. For one thing, you're paying 160 point for a 5 man marine squad that can move 12" then shoot a single melta gun. This isn't very cost efficient. Second, you only have 4 wounds protecting each power fist. A c.c. enemy unit has a good chance of crushing these squads before your fist has a chance to go off. For this kind of army, you'll need at least 3 marine squads in rhinos- either 2 basic marines with meltas + 1 zerker, or the other way around. Normally, I'd recommend taking no less than 4 maine squads, but you've got other things you're trying to do.


    Thanks for the tip, I think i'll try 2 marine squad + 1 zerker.

    HQ: At the 1500 point level, it's difficult to field two expensive hq's and not have it weaken the remainder of your build. Your sorcerer is way overpriced for what he does- both at range and c.c.. You can get another prince that has roughly the same c.c. tricks for a fraction of the cost, or, you can use a sorcerer devoted more towards the ranged elements. These duel purpose hq's don't work in armies less than 2000 points when coupled with a second hq. It just gets too expensive. Makes sense?


    ok! I'll keep my DP. It's true for the sorcerer, 200 points for 1 guy... only necrons do that...

    Now, if i re-do my list with what you suggest, it does:

    QG : 155 pts

    1 Demon Prince : Slaanesh + wings + Lash of submission = 155


    ELITE : 158

    6 Chosen Space marines = aspiring champion + lightening claws + 2 melta guns = 158

    TROOPS : 733

    10 Chaos Space marines = 2 melta guns + aspiring champion + power fist = 210
    Rhino = 35

    10 Chaos Space marines = 2 plasma guns + aspiring champion + power fist = 220
    Rhino = 35

    8 Berserkers = aspiring champion + power fist = 208
    Rhino = 35

    SOUTIEN : 440

    2 Obliterators (150)
    Vindicator = demonic possession (20) = 145
    Vindicator = demonic possession (20) = 145
    TOTAL : 1496

    I fallowed your advise and put only 2 sqauds os space marines and one of berserks. I put 6 chosen to kill a tank in the beginning and then seek and destroy the first fire support unit that they see. Also this one has a fire power increase and more guys so i kind of like it more :happy:.

    What do you think of it now?

    Chaeron




  8. #7
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    with Alice
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,843
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    946 (x8)

    Much better. You might want to consider switching the chosen to plasma guns and the second marine squad to melta guns. Since chosen are slow, you want to have weapons that have decent range. Conversely, since rhinos are fast, you can afford the shorter range of the melta gun.
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  9. #8
    Member Chaeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
    Much better. You might want to consider switching the chosen to plasma guns and the second marine squad to melta guns. Since chosen are slow, you want to have weapons that have decent range. Conversely, since rhinos are fast, you can afford the shorter range of the melta gun.

    I was more thinking about the chosen:

    They infiltrate, near a immobile artillerie vehicule, move 6 and shoot with the 2 meltas, maybe with the bolters if they can make a hole in the vehicule. If i choose plasma over meltas, i'll have a much different unit, it would be more a support unit killing team, it's just not the same use, but which is best? I don't know... What do you think?

    By the way, thanks for your time and ideas! 8Y

    Chaeron

  10. #9
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    with Alice
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,843
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    946 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaeron View Post
    I was more thinking about the chosen:

    They infiltrate, near a immobile artillerie vehicule, move 6 and shoot with the 2 meltas, maybe with the bolters if they can make a hole in the vehicule. If i choose plasma over meltas, i'll have a much different unit, it would be more a support unit killing team, it's just not the same use, but which is best? I don't know... What do you think?

    By the way, thanks for your time and ideas! 8Y

    Chaeron
    True, but unless your opponent is inexperienced, you won't get to fire those meltas until round 2. Good players rarely allow infiltrating units to be deployed less than 18" from their nearest unit. At that range, it will be round 2 before you can fire your meltas.

    At any rate, try the meltas out. If they work for you then that's really what counts. In my experience, it's much easier to find targets for chosen special weapons, when they are plasma guns, because everyone uses troops. Not all armies use vehicles, or allow their vehicles to get in range of infiltrating units. The, in essence, is why I prefer plasmas to meltas in chosen. Plus, an aggressive opponent will advance upon the chosen with their c.c. units, in which case the plasmas are better. Just a thought.
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  11. #10
    Member Chaeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
    True, but unless your opponent is inexperienced, you won't get to fire those meltas until round 2. Good players rarely allow infiltrating units to be deployed less than 18" from their nearest unit. At that range, it will be round 2 before you can fire your meltas.

    At any rate, try the meltas out. If they work for you then that's really what counts. In my experience, it's much easier to find targets for chosen special weapons, when they are plasma guns, because everyone uses troops. Not all armies use vehicles, or allow their vehicles to get in range of infiltrating units. The, in essence, is why I prefer plasmas to meltas in chosen. Plus, an aggressive opponent will advance upon the chosen with their c.c. units, in which case the plasmas are better. Just a thought.

    Only the battlefield will give an answer to that. I still have 2 questions:

    - in total, is it better to have 2 meltas and 4 plasma or 4 meltas and 2 plasmas? => for this army
    - since the demonic possession makes my vindicators fire once every two turns, is it such a good idea? how can i use them without loosing too much fire power, even thow their initial aim is more psychologic than anything ( who isn't scared of 2 demolisher cannons?).

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts