4ED Chaotic Chaos - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member fatal_GRACE's Avatar
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    4ED Chaotic Chaos

    One thing I hate to see is army lists made by people who are making 'consistent' or 'dependable' army lists. All those lists with no cult marines and not even many icons, because they think the new chaos marines are such a solid choice. While this may be true, I feel that it is an affront to the dark gods, a travesty of stability that begs to be destabilized. So, although I have not yet seen a new codex, I am going to make a (roughly) 1.5-2k point army list based on what I see of other people army lists, and guesstimating costs from the old codex. Here we are.

    HQ

    Chaos Lord
    Terminator armor
    Lightning claws
    IoK

    Chaos Sorcerer
    Familiar (Warptime + Winds of Chaos)
    D. Weapon (dont know what ones are available)
    MoN

    ELITES

    5x Terminators
    5x Combi Plas
    2x Powerfist
    IoK

    TROOPS

    8x Plague Marines
    2x Plasma
    AC w/PF
    Rhino w/XA

    10x CSM
    2x plasma
    AC w/PF
    IoN

    10x CSM
    2x Melta
    AC w/PF
    IoK

    FAST ATTACK

    8x Chaos Raptors
    2x Melta
    IoS
    AC w/PW

    HEAVY SUPPORT

    Predator w/LC sponsons

    Defiler w/ 2x ccw

    TOTAL: ????

    That should be around 2000 points, I think, but it's a rough estimate. The Termy lord with the termies, and the Sorceror with the plague marines in the rhino - termies teleport down from the raptors or plague marines while the CSMs lay down a more static firebase. The raptors can tank hunt as well as hold their own in combat - I considered a PF on the champion, but I didnt want to waste the bonus init. Meanwhile, the pred also makes a good tank busting unit, and the defiler can handle any armor or infantry it runs into. I am, however, considering Havocs or oblits as heavy support, as I dont like using armor very much. I would like to free up some room for dreadnoughts as well, as I love dreads. I am also considering upgrading the IoK CSMs to full fledged Berzerkers.

    My favorite part about the army is the variety - win or lose, it will make for some pretty unpredictable, exciting games.

    Any C&C is welcome, but don't be too harsh, remember - I haven't actually seen the new codex yet.

    Last edited by fatal_GRACE; August 29th, 2007 at 04:07.

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  3. #2
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Lord: Just curious, but do you plan on footslogging this pup across the field, since he can no longer have a retinue?

    Sorcerer: He's illegal. Can't take a daemon weapon on anyone but the chaos lord

    Termis: That's exactly how I'd configure them. Very potent at close proximity, whether at range or in c.c.

    Marines: Aside from the plague marines, how do you plan on delivering the other 2 into c.c. against ranged opponents? You'll have a very difficult time against Tau and mech eldar. Rhino? Other than this, they look fine.

    Raptors: Fine here too. Lightning claws would be fantastic, if you can muster the points.

    Vehicles in general: It's a good rule of thumb to either take lots of vehicles or none at all. With only 2, and in a 2000 point game, your opponent should have no problems destroying both the predator and the defiler on turn 1.

    You're also very weak on tank busting units. You effectively only have 2- the predator and the raptors. While your one marine squad has the potential for popping tanks, it's very unlikely, considering their slow movement. Giving them a rhino would greatly improve this aspect.

    Overall, your list lacks a solid range base of fire. I think this spawns from a combination of taking 2 hqs and having two expensive infantry units (i.e., plague marines & termis).
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  4. #3
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    I don't think to many people are massing regular chaos marines...

    1. Sorcerer can't take a daemon weapon.

    2. How could you possibly take a khorne lord without bloodfeeder and call your list risky.

    3. You have very little anti-tank.

    I understand you might not have read the codex, try downloading Caluins thing in the chaos forum (the I am Inspired thread), it should help you make a list.
    Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!

    If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.

    Fluffmaster
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  5. #4
    Member fatal_GRACE's Avatar
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    Lord: Just curious, but do you plan on footslogging this pup across the field, since he can no longer have a retinue?

    Sorcerer: He's illegal. Can't take a daemon weapon on anyone but the chaos lord
    I was not aware that the Lord can no longer take a retinue, or that the D. Weapon was illegal, so I would probably give the lord wings instead and have him support (but not join) the Raptors, possibly give him the D. Weapon, and give the Sorcerer LC or a normal PW.

    I would never footslog a termy khorne lord
    2. How could you possibly take a khorne lord without bloodfeeder and call your list risky.
    Probably because I dont know what a bloodfeeder is - havent seen the codex yet, remember?

    Vehicles in general: It's a good rule of thumb to either take lots of vehicles or none at all. With only 2, and in a 2000 point game, your opponent should have no problems destroying both the predator and the defiler on turn 1.

    You're also very weak on tank busting units. You effectively only have 2- the predator and the raptors. While your one marine squad has the potential for popping tanks, it's very unlikely, considering their slow movement. Giving them a rhino would greatly improve this aspect.

    Overall, your list lacks a solid range base of fire. I think this spawns from a combination of taking 2 hqs and having two expensive infantry units (i.e., plague marines & termis).
    I have been considering taking two preds and some dreads, and dropping the defiler. This would help alot with both spreading out enemy anti tank fire and providing more of my own.

    I did notice I was short on anti tank weaponry, and I know its something that needs to be fixed. However, I decided to go ahead and post the list as is, to get feedback on how the individual units work, and get some suggestions for anti tank units that I may have overlooked while reading other army lists on the forum.

    As for rhinos, I dislike the general consensus that all squads require rhinos to be truly effective. I do agree that rhinos are extremely useful and often make the difference, but I greatly prefer to field footslogging infantry. I realize it sacrifices mobility, but it better fits my play style, so I am trying to find effective alternatives.


    Judging by the replies so far, I will probably drop one of the HQs and the defiler in favor of another predator and a few dreads, for starters. For now, though, I will wait for a little more feedback on the thread, and keep trying to get my hands on the new codex.
    Last edited by fatal_GRACE; August 29th, 2007 at 09:57.

  6. #5
    LO Zealot Ironangel256's Avatar
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    Just a few points:

    1. The reason why so many people are using rhinos these days are because the rhino has been reduced in cost, come with a few extras for no charge, and due to the fact that our basic troops can no longer take infiltrate. Unless you plan on taking a 10 man squad to get a stationary heavy weapon it is very important to be mobile in todays meta game. the rhino fills this role very well.

    2. be careful with dreads, in the new dex they have become even more dangerous to take than they were in the old dex. Now when they fire frenzy the simply fire at the closest unit instead of firing on the nearest enemy first and firing on your troops if there are none in range.

    3. The bloodfeeder sounds like it would be right up your alley just like LL said. the bloodfeeder is the khornate daemon weapon and it allows you to get something like a possible 18 attacks on the charge but it has a chance of wounding you.
    IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!

    I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.

  7. #6
    Son of LO LordLink's Avatar
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    228 (x8)

    Sorcerers hace with force weapons as standard now mate. They don't take other things.
    Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!

    If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.

    Fluffmaster
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  8. #7
    Member fatal_GRACE's Avatar
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    OK, considering all the advice and insights offered to me, I have redone the army list. Please keep in mind tha tI still have not seen the new codex, so I am not totally sure of my points total or the options available.

    HQ

    Chaos Sorcerer
    Familiar (Warptime + Winds of Chaos)
    Force Weapon
    MoN

    ELITES

    5x Terminators
    5x Combi Plas
    2x Powerfist
    IoK

    TROOPS

    8x Plague Marines
    2x Plasma
    AC w/PF
    Rhino

    10x CSM
    2x plasma
    AC w/PF
    IoCG

    10x CSM
    2x Melta
    AC w/PF
    IoCG
    Rhino

    FAST ATTACK

    8x Chaos Raptors
    2x Melta
    IoS
    AC w/PW

    HEAVY SUPPORT

    Predator w/LC sponsons

    Predator w/LC sponsons

    2x Obliterators


    Further C&C is welcome!

  9. #8
    Pomogromogranite! Aether-Moose's Avatar
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    Looks like a very solid list. I don't have many comments, as I run a very similar build at 1500 points, but I wil suggest a Plasma toting Chosen squad. These boys will start the game right up in your opponents face and will draw a lot of fire away from the rest of your force as they advance. They can fire at range and pick at Support squads or heavy infantry, or fry squads that get too close with Rapid Fire.

    BTW, I've sent you a PM regarding the new codex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett on Quidditch
    I couldn't help but imagine some poor guy looking up to find a Badger hurtling towards him, about to wrap itself around his skull.
    [ 1500pt. Chaos List, C&C! ]
    -=W: 2 -D: 0- L: 3=-

  10. #9
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    It does look much better, except what's the point in having the MoN on the sorcerer? It works fairly well as a c.c. hq, especially with the double-wielding psi power. However, you should also consider the MoT, which allows you to actually use 2 psi powers a turn.
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  11. #10
    Member fatal_GRACE's Avatar
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    I have considered the Chosen, I am also considering Possessed, as I have some cool conversion ideas. For the time being, it really just depends on what I think after reading the codex.

    As to your comment, Rabbit, I gave him the MoN for two reasons - it allows me to put him with the Plague Marines, affording some extra protection, and I have already converted a Nurgle Sorcerer that I am very fond of, haha. I have considered a Tzeentch sorcerer, but I think I would probably just take off the familiar and focus him more for pure CC (and save some points in the process) with Warptime. However, with Apocalypse coming out, I'll probably have both eventually.

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