[1000] Black Legion Tournament List - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    [1000] Black Legion Tournament List

    I am joining in an up-coming local store tournament of 1,000pts, so far the players there are mostly Tau, Eldar, Space Marine, and Imperial Guard... but mostly Tau (over 1/3 of the players). The tournament is in 2 weeks time, so I will have... hopefully, enough time to paint all the necessary models for the game.

    This is my first 1,000pts list, and it will be tested throughout this week. Please give suggestions or comments for improvement.

    Thanks.

    HQ
    Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Slaanesh, Daemonic Steed, Daemon Weapon

    I figure that a Daemon Prince with Lash Submission would not be effective, if my opponent is playing mechanise army or if they have some sort of anti-psychic power stuff like Psychic Hood or Runes of Warding. I thought a fast-moving HQ would be needed to take down shooty army, so combine this Lord with the Tzeentch Bike's 2+ invulnerable screening in the front.. it should get my Lord into combat on the second turn.

    Troop
    10x Chaos Space Marine w/ Auto Cannon, Plasma Gun, Champion & Powerfist

    Static range support.. the champion is there to provide LDR10 and a backup measure if my opponent deep strike assault troops next to my firing line.

    8x Khorne Berzerkers w/ Champion & Powerfist, Rhino & Extra Armour

    It's here really to create some distraction for my Lord and Bikes. Should they live to get into combat, they'll really dish out some damage.

    Fast
    4x Bike w/ Icon of Tzeentch, 2x Meltagun, Champion & Powerfist

    My backup distraction unit and secondary anti-tank.

    Heavy
    Predator w/ Lascannon Sponson

    Primary Anti-tank.

    Total Point: 1,000

    Anima Tactics - try it out!

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Thyr's Avatar
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    Your list look good. The strategy you've put behind your units should work against most of your opponents because you should be able to rule the movement phase with your Bikers and your 2 tanks.

    The only reserve I have is about your CSM squad with the AC and the Plasma gun. You put a really costly power fist on a squad that will probably never see close combat since you plan to use it as a static range support. Then your AC and your Plasma gun don't have the same range even if they have the same STR, therefore you will lose most of your Plasma Gun shots because you will try to target units far away. You plan to use them to protect your firing line, but you don't have a firing line except for this squad...

    Remove the AC from the squad and with the points you saved give the squad a rhino and make them charge along with the Berserkers, that way your army will be geared toward CC giving each your squads a good chance to get there. And if you have the model you could replace the Plasma Gun by a Meltagun, they are superior to it by far and cheaper.

    Also wouldn't it be better to put the Chaos Lord on a Bike instead of a Steed and make him ride with your Chaos Bikers, that way he would be protected by the squad. Since they cost the same amount of points it shouldn't be a problem. Then you can try to find 10 more points (5 if you took a Meltagun in your CSM squad) to give him the mark of Tzeentch too and you have yourself a really nice / hard hitting / fast attack squad.

  4. #3
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Very nice suggestions, but I am kind of concern about Eldar Falcon/Wave Serpent or Tau Devilfish, both are transportation device and both will deny my army's chance to get into assault. The auto cannon/plasma is there to give me a slight chance to maybe stun them for a turn to allow me to get into combat easier. Perhaps, I will remove the P.fist Champion altogether and give someone in the unit an Icon of Chaos Glory for LDR 9 reroll, and upgrade that Auto Cannon to a Lascannon. How is that sound?

    As for my Lord option, I dont have a model on bike and I dont intend on converting one just for the tournament, I get lazy sometimes.
    Anima Tactics - try it out!

  5. #4
    Senior Member Thyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nekochen View Post
    Very nice suggestions, but I am kind of concern about Eldar Falcon/Wave Serpent or Tau Devilfish, both are transportation device and both will deny my army's chance to get into assault. The auto cannon/plasma is there to give me a slight chance to maybe stun them for a turn to allow me to get into combat easier. Perhaps, I will remove the P.fist Champion altogether and give someone in the unit an Icon of Chaos Glory for LDR 9 reroll, and upgrade that Auto Cannon to a Lascannon. How is that sound?

    As for my Lord option, I dont have a model on bike and I dont intend on converting one just for the tournament, I get lazy sometimes.
    Sounds good, but I believe that what you really want is a Chaos Havoc squad. Like you said, the transportation devices of your opponent are just that; transports. They will unload sooner or later and if you target the Crisis / Battle Suits and the Heavy Weapon squads first with your Chaos Bikers then no one will be able to shoot at them. To take down the Heavy tanks you will need more power than a single Autocannon backed up by a Plasma Gun.

    With an Havoc squad you could have 2 Missile Launchers, 1 Lascannon and 3 CSM for 165 pts. I know you need two troop choice to be legal but it's up to you to see what kind of model you have available and how you can fit them in your 1000 pts army list.

    Here's what I would do:

    HQ
    *- Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Khorne, Power Weapon 115
    Troop
    *- 7x Khorne Berzerkers w/ Champion & Power Fist, Rhino
    *- 7x Khorne Berzerkers w/ Champion & Power Fist, Rhino
    Fast
    *- 4x Bike w/ 2x Meltagun, Champion & Powerfist 192
    Heavy
    *- 5 Havoc w/ 2 Missile Launchers 115
    *- Predator w/ Lascannon Sponson 130
    Total Point: 996

    But of course that's me and I have those model available. I never liked putting too much points on my Lords in 1000 pts games, yes they are quite good at what they do, but I prefer to have more troops instead of a single boosted character. Without the Steed I would make the Lord ride in one of the Rhino with the Berserkers. In fact I believe the Lord will live longer inside a squad and it will support it quite nicely.

    Hope it helps.

  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    Thyr's first post had some excellent suggestions, but I'm going to take a slightly different approach :ballon:.

    HQ: Thyr's bike idea was spot on, but if you're lazy (like me too), the Slaaneshi steed also works well. Actually, one great thing about the bike lord is that if you elected to have him buddy up with the bikers, then you could omit the bike champion altogether. As far as Thyr's suggestion about giving the lord both a bike and the Tzeentch mark, well, at the 1000 point level, you really don't have the points. Plus, if you have him join the bike squad, then he's got 4 additional wounds to protect him. This kind of defeats the purpose of the Tzeentch mark.

    Troops: Keeping with the idea of a static marine squad, and considering the low point level of your build, it's probably best to remove the champion altogether. However, if you're concerned about a potential c.c. skirmish, then simply give the champion a basic power weapon. Again, at the 1000 point level, you can't afford too many conditional upgrades that don't help the primary function of a unit, such as a champion with a power fist/weapon.

    As it stands, the units ranged weaponry is fine. While the plasma gun lacks the 48" range of the autocannon, it will come in handy when your opponent draws near. Plus, the unit has decent light tank busting abilities.

    Zerkers: Swap the fist for a basic power weapon, and take advantage of the furious charge init boost.

    Bikes: This squad is a little small for justifying the IoT. You really need at least 6 to make it cost effective. Second, in low point games, you'll want to minimize extraneous upgrades, such as champions in range oriented squads. Your build currently has two champion with fists in range squads, and this is 80 points or so (8% of your total army cost). In all, you'd be better off keeping the unit as cheap as possible. 4 bikes with 2 meltas

    best of luck.

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  7. #6
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Great advice Rabbit, and in fact, I've tried out this list twice today - once against Witch Hunter and once against Tau, both were resulted in a loss. I've identified the problem right away after the first game but I wanted to play again to confirm it... the bike squad were not as effective as I thought it would be, although it performed just as I was expecting them to be - as a screening for my Lord's advance.

    I am really torn in deciding wether or not to keep the bikes, they do serve their purpose but at what cost? They are mostly only last for 1 turn, after the initial turn they shot/assault.. they are wiped out right away. What else can I have besides the bike that will serve the same task?

    The game results really shine some lights on me as to give me some ideas, so I am going to revise my list again and hopefully it'll work out this time.
    Anima Tactics - try it out!

  8. #7
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    You've got some options.

    7x raptors w/ 2 melta guns & a.c. with lightning claws with IoS (or IoK with 10 more points). I think you'll find this squad to be quite effective at tank busting and supporting your c.c. goals.

    Or you could another predator and then have extra points for either reinforcing your other units or perhaps taking an obliterator.

    Here's another options:

    6x termis
    *1x heavy flamer with power fist
    *5x combi-plasmas
    (crazy deep striking fire power. Make sure you've read upon 4th edition chaos deep striking off of icons- no scatter and can be done with the icon inside a transport).
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  9. #8
    Ahhhhh.... nekochen's Avatar
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    Yep I do have 15 terminators models, which 12 of them are equipped with Combi-Plasmas Even Raptors are equipped with Meltaguns like you've said.. it's just too perfect!

    Anyways, I've modified the list a little bit and I am hoping it'll work out this time. I will give it a try tomorrow at my local GW store again.

    HQ
    Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Slaanesh, Daemonic Steed, Daemon Weapon

    She's just too good to be rid of.. I've never had a problem with her (yes her! my Slaanesh Lord model is actually a her!). She's done the impossible so many times by single-handedly wiping out an entire unit of 8 terminators

    Greater Daemon

    Added for some extra resilience and a great distraction.

    Troop
    10x Chaos Space Marine w/ Lascannon, Icon of Chaos Glory

    One problem I ran in with the previous list is that this unit were almost next to useless, except sitting around capping objective that's in my deployment zone. My Predator were not able to cover the entire table when it comes to anti tank, so when my opponent took 2 heavy tanks (AV13+) I were only able to stop one from shooting for a turn.. I am hoping an extra lascannon will help shortening my Predator's control zone thus making it more effective by sitting still and firing into one single corridor.

    8x Khorne Berzerkers w/ Champion & Power Weapon, Rhino & Extra Armour

    I took the advice and switched out the fist for a P.wpn, it does save quite alot of points but I hope it'll be just as effective as before.

    Fast
    4x Bike w/ 2x Meltagun, Champion

    I decided to keep the Bike, because of two reasons.. first, it's the only unit that can keep up with my Lord (or lady..) while still providing enough anti-tank power when their job is done. Also, it's also a good unit that run fast to get into range for my greater daemon to pop out.. now they will WANT to shoot at my bikes with everything they have after knowing that G.Daemon is waiting in the warp!

    Heavy
    Predator w/ Lascannon Sponson

    Primary Anti-tank.

    Total Point: 998
    Anima Tactics - try it out!

  10. #9
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    946 (x8)

    I'll be brutally honest and say that the list is worse than before. For one thing, you're paying 170+ points for a chaos marine squad that has a single las canon. Does this seem expensive to you? While they are also good against the swarm, they're too 'white washed.'

    You're also low on body counts.
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