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  1. #1
    Senior Member BeakeR's Avatar
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    Help fighting Eldar

    Hey guys, I wanted to run something by you and get your opinions on how to approach fighting this type of Eldar force. Basically, I am trying to design a 2000 pt. list that is meant to fight against the following force:

    ELDAR:
    HQ:
    Eldrad Ulthran
    Avatar

    TROOPS:
    10x Wraithguard w/ shadowseer
    10x Guardians w/ shur cannon
    10x Guardians w/ shur cannon

    ELITES:
    5x Wraithguard with shadowseer
    10x Harlequins
    10x Harlequins

    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    Fire Prism
    Fire Prism
    Fire Prism

    That's the basics of the army. I know he has some other stuff that I'm missing, like some warlocks, shadowseers, farseers...whatever those guys are. Basically, he is anticipating my forces to push forward, where he can shoot them up with the wraithguard and fire prism's, then counter my advances with the Harlequins. I'm trying to come up with a good counter to this force, the problem for me is, I have very little knowledge of the Eldar and I'm not sure exactly how to tackle them.

    What I have basically come up with so far is 2 defilers to try and eliminate the wraithguard as quickly as possible, along with a predator annihilator to try and take out a fire prism or 2. I was thinking abut getting a couple units of bikers with meltas and Icons of Tzeentch and just turbo boost them across in the first turn to try and eliminate the other fire prisms. I was also thinking about a 8-man raptor squad with meltas and Icon of Tzeentch to also aid in the effort to eliminate the fire prisms asap.

    What do you guys think about fighting a force like this? What would you recommend?


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  3. #2
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Senior Member Iaphyr's Avatar
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    a but more info on you?..

    hmm that is a fairly interesting list for the eldar, the first thing you must doi in the game is congratulate your friend for being able to acquire 15 wraithguard, because they're REALLY expensive models. what models do you have however? is there an limit to what sort of list we can throw down?

    His list:

    Eldrad - Don't bother investing in a sorcerer, Eldrad is arguably the best anti-psyker araound and you'll be lucky to pass 1 test in game. if you don't want aa Lord, take a prince and get him ready for combat. hes also pretty powerful offensively with 3 psychic powers a turrn, and any cheap shots you can get on him you should take!

    Avatar - sigh, so predictable. it will hang around the guardians, keeping them fearless and being a counter-assault unit. it's faily tough to take out, as it's inv. save will be stopping most things, but dies fast to mid range things like dakka Preds.

    Wraithguard - Congratulate him yet again for having the models, but then forget about them. they only have a 12" range on their guns, and they're not to hard to beat up with power fists, so don't worry about them until they come to you, which they will, at 6" a turn.

    Guardians - shurikan cannon means he will be lucky to take out a marine every turn with both units, so he may walk them forward as bait, or to grab objectives if applicable. They are relying on the Avatar for leadership (fearless) unless they have warlocks, so don't try and make them run until he's gone.

    Harlequins. - these units will probably make or break the game. the rending attacks in combat are crazy, so try not to get into combat unitl they are severly depleted. He's not running them with transport, which makes your job a bit easier as you can almost choose when they hit combat

    Fire Prisms - hmm, I don't really know much of them, as all my aldar friends use the cheese falcon instead. make sure you ask him about what upgrades he's taken on them, as some of the eldar trickery can be quite annoying. all I know is that they have big guns and they seem to be his only ranged / anti tank weapons apart from the HQ's... help anyone?...

    Overall - kind of a bizzare eldar list in that he isn't all mech or no mech, yet he has non of the faster units that are often used to zip around (bikers come to mind), and ths could be an easy win if you play your cards right. his obseession with counter-assault (virtually his whole army are counter units) is a great weaknessthat you should go for. try not to get to close too early, and deny their capabilities by sitting out of reach, slowly pepperering them with fire.

    this would mean taking a fair bit of firepower, both predator types (tho dakka is always better), obliterators and defilers are all good, and you may like some 1000 sons that will slowly ponder forward and take down the heavier eldar infantry. a fast assault unit including HQ's will of course be nessesry, as at some point (maybe turn 3 / 4) you will need to seize the initative and make a decisive strike. Powerfists are alos your friends on many of the units espeacially the forward ones, as there is a lot of high T in that army...

    I should stop rambling now...



    Edit - YAY for 100 posts!!!

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    Senior Member BeakeR's Avatar
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    Iaphyr,

    Thanks for the input. Yeah, I was thinking along those same lines. Maybe 2 Defilers to shoot up his Wraithguard, then some fast anti-tank units such as bikers with meltas to charge down the field and pop the fire prisms. He plans on using the prisms to focus fire my troops, trying to maximize their armour penetration. For this reason I was thinking of taking more 1000 sons to counter his low AP weaponry with the invulnerable saves. I already shut down any thought of taking a psychic character when he said he was using Eldrad. For this reason, I was thinking of taking a Lord with Deathscreamer, 2 squads of 10 1000 sons, 2 defilers, 2 4-man biker squads with Icon of Tzeentch, and then filling out the rest as I see fit. Thoughts?

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    Senior Member Iaphyr's Avatar
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    the problem with biker melting is that you won't be doing any killing till at least tun 2, if not three if hes being cagey, which is not much better than using Oblits, which could either DS next too, or Lascannon from range.

    the defilers could be useful here, as they could turn their secondary weapon on the prisms aas well, There is seriuolsy no rush to go after the wraithguard after all. He really needs you to come to him, so you should aim to deny him that and force him out of position before engaging in closer fighting.

    PS. do you have a land raider? I notice a conspicuos lack of Bright lances, and the main threats (wraithguard and avatar) would be too slow to catch it before it's too late. Even if it's slowly grinding forward as an empty bunker, he'd still have to worry about it (you could almost garuntee a seriously damaged prism a turn

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    Senior Member BeakeR's Avatar
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    No, I do not have a Landraider, although that could change before we actually get around to hashing this out (He's in Iraq trying to avoid getting blown up by insurgents). Now that you mention it, his guardian units are rolling with Bright Lance platforms, not shuri cannons, so he does have 2 lances out there. Here's a preliminary list I put together around some of the ideas we've discussed.

    HQ:
    Chaos Lord
    -Mark of Tzeentch
    -Deathscreamer

    TROOPS:
    9x Thousand Sons w/ Aspiring Sorcerer
    -Doombolt

    10x Thousand Sons w/ Aspiring Sorcerer
    -Doombolt

    6x Noise Marines
    -Noise Champion
    --Doom Siren
    -Blastmaster
    -4x Sonic Blasters

    6x Noise Marines
    -Noise Champion
    --Doom Siren
    -Blastmaster
    -3x Sonic Blasters

    ELITES:
    Dreadnought
    -Plasma Cannon

    Dreadnought
    -TL Lascannon
    -Missle Launcher

    8x Chosen
    -4x Plasma Gun

    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    Defiler
    -Havoc Launcher

    Defiler
    -Havoc Launcher

    Predator
    -TL Lascannon
    -SS Lascannons

    That comes out to exactly 2000 points. I don't really like the Dreadnoughts, but I think they fit in well with the army. If you think of a better idea than using the 2 dreadnoughts then please let me know. I like having the 5 armoured units out there to divert some of the fire possibly away from the other units. I just hate that crazed rule because I don't like the unpredictability. I guess I'm a control freak. Anyway, please let me know if you guys have any suggestions.

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    Member H3ytony's Avatar
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    Typical cheerleader avatar, clowns, and 3 skimmers. I've seen scarier eldar lists though. :happy:

    As for yours, drop the doom siren on the noise marine aspiring champions in favor for another sonic blaster, as a squad configured like you have want to stay back and shoot, not use that flamer template. (they won't get close enough on foot anyway). You could get rid of the champion and stick with normal noise marines.

    Bolt of change on the TS sorcerors could help against those vehicles, the avatar, and the wraithguard, but many people advise against that as a waste of points, so it's up to you.

    Pray your dreadnoughts don't go berzerk and shoot your own troops with a plasma cannon.

    Otherwise list looks pretty well rounded. You just have to 'out-play' him on the battlefield. (haha easier said than done)
    HDZ

  9. #8
    Senior Member eldratch the fallen's Avatar
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    i like your list but id say go all infantry.
    get rd of the dreads,defilers and pred
    instead invest in lots of havoc squads with MLs. theses guys a brutally effective as the can easily take down medium vehicles and infantry alike.

    wel thats my 67cents
    I love Pathfinders.

  10. #9
    Member Emeraldguardx's Avatar
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    hmm that is a fairly interesting list for the eldar, the first thing you must do in the game is congratulate your friend for being able to acquire 15 wraithguard, because they're REALLY expensive models.
    true, but above all congratulate him for min-maxing the bajesus out of an eldar list, there is more cheese here then at a belgium festivale.

    first, lets look at his list:

    ELDAR:
    HQ:
    Eldrad Ulthran - forget using a psyker, you will never get to use your powers, with him being a IC you wont be able to shoot him, but you know whats beautiful? i watched his head get blown own first shot from a deviated shot in a game against Guard, guy quit the match on the spot, that was awsome
    Avatar - what eldar army dosen't have one? Im going with what Iaphyr said.

    TROOPS:
    10x Wraithguard w/ shadowseer - forget about them, they move slow and are useless outside of their short gun range, make them come to you, but if you happen to have some extra high STR shots at the end of shooting, try taking one or two out.

    10x Guardians w/ brightlance - corrected
    10x Guardians w/ brightlance - corrected - any template (Vind, Defi, Oblit) will polish these guys off fairly quick, the only threat they pose is the BL, but make him work for the shots.

    ***note*** here is the key to winning this game, i play eldar, and the thing about eldar is, in their element they are outstanding, take them out of their element and they die like dogs. If they control the flow of the game they will win, the object is for you to control how the game lays out. He dosent have the right units to control the speed of the game so make him work for everything he wants to do.


    ELITES:
    5x Wraithguard with shadowseer - same as other unit, make them march, stay outside their range and thats a whole bunch of points doing nothing.
    10x Harlequins
    10x Harlequins - these guys are vicious in CC, like i said above, in CC they will dominate, but shoot at them and they will bite the dust, dont worry about high STR shots, get volume of shots into them (templates maybe?) (I really think the Vindicator and or Defiler are going to be your best bet in this game)

    HEAVY SUPPORT:
    Fire Prism
    Fire Prism
    Fire Prism - This is probably going to be your biggest problem and most likely your number 1 priority. I have played against and used the triplet templates. He has the option to barrage you with decent STR templates or nail you to the wall with 1 template. keep in mind he still needs line of site. Try to keep your vulnerable guys in cover and spread out, get rid of them, a predator or some havocs would not be bad, or maybe a fast unit with melta guns. Once you can dismantle these mechs, its all downhill from there.

    Remember his major flaw (other then the mechs) is his speed, YOU control the flow of the game. But watch those Harlies, they move a bit faster then normal troops, thin them out as much as possible.

    Now lets look at your list: (sorry this is so long, i really get into this stuff sometimes, but hopefully it helps)

    first off, and most important, you can't have a IoT on your lord and use noise marines and different marks elsewhere, the lord would have to be undivided. That is a illegal list. I don't know what you have in your inventory but i'll try to keep the list as generic as possible for you to work with. Powerfists will be your friend against the wraithguard. Against this Eldar list your going to have to outshoot him since your going to want to stay away from him at all costs. This is just an idea of the direction i would go in. Using the MoT you get that valuable save against harlies and the fire prisim.

    HQ:
    terminator lord - pf, MoT
    Put him with the termies in the LR.

    Elites:
    4 terminators - MoT, pf, 3x lightning claws, heavy flamer, land raider
    If you can get the land raider use it like Iaphyr said, hes got a point. this is all a bit of a point sink buts it is a 2000pt game and he will have a hard time cracking the tank, takes heat off the defilers and vice versa and also it puts LasCannons on the board to take out tanks. (The termies are geared to take on the harlies.)

    Troops:
    10 Chaos Marines - MoT, AC, PF, LasCannon
    10 Chaos Marines - MoT, AC, PF, Missile launcher
    10 Chaos Marines - MoT, AC, PF, Missile launcher
    Normally i would'nt put heavy weapons in these squads but you have to make him come to you and you have to out shoot him. The lascannon and missile luanchers are a great mix to take out the armour and infantry, and even when he does get to you, the PF will own. Note im not using thousand suns marines becuase they have to take a psyhic power which is a waste of points against Eldrad.

    Fast Attack:
    8 raptors - pf, meltagun, ac, MoT
    they will help control the flow of the game, try to use them to pick off the avatar and his guardians.

    Heavies:
    defiler with havoc launcher
    defiler with havoc launcher
    these guys can demolish a good portion of his army from afar and still do well in CC
    2 obliterators
    great ranged guys, keep them in cover as far back as possible. and target those vehicles, if they are not in sight, try the avatar, if not him use templates on the infantry

    that should come to 1995. I hope that helps!





    Last edited by Emeraldguardx; March 5th, 2008 at 08:29.
    Biel Tan Eldar 3-0-8
    Vanilla Marines 17-1-2
    Alaitoc Eldar 15-2-4
    Goff Orks 21-1-2
    Nurgle Chaos work in progress

  11. #10
    Member H3ytony's Avatar
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    Nevermind about the bolt of change on the sorcerors, he's using Eldrad.

    Emeraldguardx, I disagree on several points:

    first off, and most important, you can't have a IoT on your lord and use noise marines and different marks elsewhere, the lord would have to be undivided. That is a illegal list.
    There are no limitations on markings/icons in the new codex that I know of.

    10 Chaos Marines - MoT, AC, PF, LasCannon
    10 Chaos Marines - MoT, AC, PF, Missile launcher
    10 Chaos Marines - MoT, AC, PF, Missile launcher
    There isn't a real point to the MoT.

    MoT is also a bit of a waste on just 4 terminators, their invulnerable save is good enough. Same with the raptors.

    More guys is better, because it increases the amount of firepower you can dish out, which will be all good against a list like this.
    HDZ

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