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    1500 points for tourny- please help!

    I've written and rewritten my list over the last few days and its driving me crazy!

    Here's what I've got it down to...

    HQ: Daemon Prince- Tzeench with Gift of Chaos and Doom bolt

    Summoned daemon (for 100pts this guy packs hell of a punch and draws lots of fire)



    Heavy support
    Land raider- possessed (for killing tanks and such)


    Predator with Heavy bolter and autocannon (for killing light vehicles and swarms)


    Defiler (to scare the daylighty out of em, oh and for blowing up squads of heavily armoured troops or indeed any target)


    Troops

    10 Berserkers + champ- (champ is the sap whos going to turn into the Daemon)

    10 Marines, Las cannon, flamer, Rhino
    7 marines, flamer, rhino
    7 marines, flamer, rhino


    I know the troops are flamer heavy- I figure I've got tank killing power from my LR, DP, summoned daemon and defiler
    Flamers are for swarms and for taking and holding objectives where cover saves stop better powered weapons.


    Any comments?

    Last edited by dfa129; December 14th, 2008 at 22:29.

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  3. #2
    Returning Lawman! Riptor's Avatar
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    I'm assuming as this is a tournament list, effectiveness comes first?
    If so, gather near, young devotee to the true powers, and adhere to the wisdom of our experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by dfa129 View Post
    I've written and rewritten my list over the last few days and its driving me crazy!

    Here's what I've got it down to...

    HQ: Daemon Prince- Tzeench with Gift of Chaos and Doom bolt

    This guy iss too slow, plus hisgifts aren't great. He wants wings, and if you want to keep him as a Tzeentch Prince, then Warptime and/or Wind of Chaos (Depends on points).

    Summoned daemon (for 100pts this guy packs hell of a punch and draws lots of fire)
    Agreed, but i'm not convinced on his vessel.


    Heavy support
    Land raider- possessed (for killing tanks and such)
    Umm, no? With only being able to target 1 vehicle a turn this thing isn't going to work as your lone tank buster. I'd personally drop it completely, but if you insist on keeping it then I suppose we have to work around it. If you want to drop it, then we are going to TOTALLY restructure your heavy support.

    Predator with Heavy bolter and autocannon (for killing light vehicles and swarms)

    Defiler (to scare the daylighty out of em, oh and for blowing up squads of heavily armoured troops or indeed any target)

    Pick one or the other, then stick to it. Either take 2 defilers (With all CCW upgrades), or take 2 predators with autocannon turret/lascannon sponsons.

    Troops

    10 Berserkers + champ- (champ is the sap whos going to turn into the Daemon)

    Why... why... WHY? First of all, no rhino, so your greatest CC squad is going to foot slog across the board? Or where you thinknig of sticking them in the land raider, which means you aren't going to be firing with it much? Forget transport capabilities, the land raider is a TANK, not a taxi.
    Secondly, when you have three other squads, why are you summoning a greater daemon on the most expensive, AND strongest champion? Thats like me deciding to take the special weapons trooper away when taking a wound even though theres 3 other marine stood there doing nothing.


    10 Marines, Las cannon, flamer, Rhino
    Pick One or the other, take a heavy weapon, or ttwo special weapons. I'd completely restructure your troops, even if you end up having to drop one of them.

    7 marines, flamer, rhino
    7 marines, flamer, rhino

    Troops should be 10 man strong, with a powerfist champion, Icon of your choice (I recommend chaos glory), a bare rhino and 2 special weapons (Meltas being preferable, then plasmas, flamers are ALRIGHT, but not great).
    Alternatively they should be 10 man, with an icon, and heavy weapon of your choice, and MAYBE a bare champion for the leadership bonus.
    Although of course you want a summoning platform for your GD, so perhaps take one of the first squads, but with no powerfist? Or take 5 man squads in a rhino with a bare champion? (Running at 125 points)
    So basically, for the troops, you want the berzerkers witha powerfist/weapon on their champion, 2 squads with 10 man, powerfist, icon of chaos glory, and 2 special wepaons each, then 1 5 man squad qwith a bare champion (If this squad dies, then you can summon on another champion). All in rhinos.

    All these run in at around 950 points, which is a fair amount on troops for a competative chaos list. From there you can add the Daemon Prince and greater daemon for around 275-300 points, and either your land raider, or two Autocannon/Lascannon Predators.



    I know the troops are flamer heavy- I figure I've got tank killing power from my LR, DP, summoned daemon and defiler
    Flamers are for swarms and for taking and holding objectives where cover saves stop better powered weapons.


    Any comments?
    Sorry if I come off as condescending here, but theres quite a few things in that list I feel could be improved.
    Rork: In the dark future of the 41st millennium there is only friendship.
    Fenrir: and magic.
    Kaiser-: My Little Chaos Marine, Friendship is Heresy?

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    thanks...I think

    Interesting thoughts-

    Daemon was to be summoned onto the berserkers because where they are is where the assault is...



    So your revised list would be


    Berserkers- rhino, champ and powerfist 285
    10 troops- chaos glory, 2 melta guns, powerfist champ, rhino 255
    10 troops- chaos glory, 2 melta guns, powerfist champ, rhino 255
    5 troops- champion, rhino 125

    Summoned daemon- 100
    Daemon prince- wings, tzeench, warptime 175

    Defiler x 2
    or
    Predator x 2


    What would I do against a swarm army with this list?
    Lets say orks-
    Big mobs of 30- I can't see them being very thinned down by the time they got to me.
    Chances are with the waaagh they'll get the charge in on my berserkers and take em apart even with their lower initiative.

    Defilers might be able to do something with ranged fire before getting stuck in but if everyone else is charging in do I want my defilers sitting at the back?


    Two more questions...
    Do I need 4 units of troops to be competetive?
    Could i have three?

    And what about big gangs of berserkers? I like the idea of 20 berserkers in a squad but I think they'd never make it to the action!

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfa129 View Post
    Interesting thoughts-

    Daemon was to be summoned onto the berserkers because where they are is where the assault is...



    So your revised list would be


    Berserkers- rhino, champ and powerfist 285
    10 troops- chaos glory, 2 melta guns, powerfist champ, rhino 255
    10 troops- chaos glory, 2 melta guns, powerfist champ, rhino 255
    5 troops- champion, rhino 125

    Summoned daemon- 100
    Daemon prince- wings, tzeench, warptime 175

    Defiler x 2
    or
    Predator x 2


    What would I do against a swarm army with this list?
    Lets say orks-
    Big mobs of 30- I can't see them being very thinned down by the time they got to me.
    Chances are with the waaagh they'll get the charge in on my berserkers and take em apart even with their lower initiative.

    Defilers might be able to do something with ranged fire before getting stuck in but if everyone else is charging in do I want my defilers sitting at the back?


    Two more questions...
    Do I need 4 units of troops to be competetive?
    Could i have three?

    And what about big gangs of berserkers? I like the idea of 20 berserkers in a squad but I think they'd never make it to the action!
    Essentially, that is rouhgly the army I am reocmmending (Though obviously, if you want to swap the meltas for flamers or similar, its your list). The Orks may get the charge on your berzerkers if you stand them right infront of the boys, but to be honest against a 30 man squad of rorks is anything REALLY going to withstand that charge? You would use the rhinos to try and pull them into a gunline, where you then rapid fire two squads into them, thinning their numbers, before charging with the berzerkers (Not too hard to get the charge on orks, just gotta estimate how far they are from you, and be sure to stand JUST outside their charge range).

    You could get away with 3 units of troops, yes, if they are 3 strong ones (!0 man strong). I recommended the fourht purely for summoning the greater daemon, because I am always loathe to lose a champion from a squad I want to use (Such as the berzerkers, that and the fact that the champion alone is 36 points!).

    Big gangs of berzerkers do not work, as you said they would never reach combat. When they did it would be turn 4/5 and their numbers would be whittled down by then. I'd much rather run 2 squads of 10.
    Rork: In the dark future of the 41st millennium there is only friendship.
    Fenrir: and magic.
    Kaiser-: My Little Chaos Marine, Friendship is Heresy?

  6. #5
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    Yeah, you can also use those Rhinos as a screen for your Zerkers when you disembark. Just move up enough to be in range on your next turn. Let the Orks move up, then move around the Rhino, get yoru shots off and then charge hard. You get all the bonuses and they get a dead bunch of orks. =)

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    Rambling thoughts

    Ok- Here's a rewritten list taking into account some of Riptor's comments



    HQ- Daemon prince- Mark of Tzeench, Warptime, Doombolt 165
    (He's going to have to foot-slog it in to combat. I'd like to give him wings but realistically I can't see it happening)

    Heavy support-

    Predator- h.bolters, a-cannon and havok launcher 115
    Defiler 150
    Land Raider (sorry just can't quite rid myself of the battle taxi!) 240

    Summoned daemon- 100
    Troops
    10 Berzerkers in the Land raider- leader, pfist 250

    10 man squad, rhino, champion, flamer x 2 210---- this champions going to be sacrificed for the summoned daemon
    10 man squad, rhino, champion- pfist, melta gun x 2 220

    Total 1450

    That gives me 50 points to play with-
    I could go for a tasty banner of Nurgle- Toughness 5 for my second squad of regulars should help them take and hold objectives.

    I could give both units a banner of chaos glory- but is that worth the points?


    I could mix flamer/melta in each unit?

    I could save up my pennies and buy a second defiler but my predator would be very handy against speeders, bikes, killa kans, c'tan etc.

    What's the advantage in taking two of one over one of each?

    I can see all my units being needed in an assault- what do I do about objectives on my side of the table? Try to collect them at the end?

  8. #7
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    You can use that Defiler to launch pie plates at those orks as they try to move up on you and there you go, less units needed for assaults. Of course, you have to take Murphy's Law into account, so yeah. Mop up afterwards.

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