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I don't know if I've ever shared this list before, but this is the list a friend of mine plays against my Guard. I've drawn a lot, but never won. Often the situation is that he'd table me if he had more turns to clean up what I have left in the end.
The list is symmetrical and based on the conept of high firepower covering brutal assault. His only concession to 5th edition is the two plague marine squads. Trying to kill a T5 3+ save FNP marine in cover is very hard indeed.
HQ: Chaos Lord (1#, 170 Pts)
1 Chaos Lord @ 170 Pts
Blood Feeder; Bolt Pistol (x1); Combi-melta; Fearless; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Wings; Mark of Khorne
2 x Troops: Plague Marines (8#, 214 Pts)
8 Plague Marines @ 214 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Plasmagun (x2); Blight Grenades; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Feel No Pain; Mark of Nurgle
Fast Attack: Raptors (9#, 230 Pts)
9 Raptors @ 230 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Meltagun (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Icon of Khorne; Mark of Khorne
(His lord joins this unit)
2 x Fast Attack: Raptors (10#, 285 Pts)
9 Raptors @ 285 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Meltagun (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Icon of Khorne
1 Aspiring Champion @  Pts
Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Mark of Khorne
3 x Heavy Support: Havocs (6#, 200 Pts)
6 Havocs @ 200 Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Lascannon (x2); Missile Launcher (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
Total Roster Cost: 1998
What are you using for your army?
Thats a pretty cool and differant list for what is seen normally for Chaos. Cool. However....
2 troops choices are really not going to be enough in 5th no matter how hard they are so you should have the advantage in objective games. List seems more tailored to 4th Ed.
Concentrate on these with your strongest weapons-Im fairly sure FnP doesnt allow the re-roll of cover saves that bypass FnP(at least thats how me and Omegoku see it) so load up on Plasma/Melta/Ordinance. Once the PMs are gone in 2/3rds of missions the best he can do is draw/wipe-out.
Im guessing he probably hangs back with the PMs and Havocs and slaughters the rest of your army with the Raptors.
Does he deep-strike the Raptors?
Can you deep-strike anything with drop-troops doctrine?
Remember he cannot sweeping advance/consolidate in to a new combat after winning a combat in 5th edition. So place all your squads apart from each other and after the Raptors slaughter a nice cheap sacrificial squad rapid fire everything and unload all your heavy weapons in to them.
Set up as far back as you can manage and make him come to you.
Set up out of cover and blast the Raptors with Ordinance blasts.
Use Rough Riders for a counter attack?
Use an Inquisitor for some combat prowess?
Get a big unit of Conscripts and add a Commisar/Gaunt and use them as a speed bump.
(Ill admit Im not familiar with that tactic of making the conscripts fearless with Gaunt but Ive heard it works)
Skip the upgrades where possible and max-out on firepower.
Remove what the units have as default as well-just keep the upgrade options.
So something like:
Plauge Marines x 10
2 Plasma, 1 Champion w/ Powerweapon xxx points
Last edited by Memnoch; February 14th, 2009 at 11:17. Reason: Adding suggestion to remove unit default wargear
Currently play: 4000+ of Black Legion
It is a really nice and brutal list I must admit. The number of Troops might be a problem but not that much since he can slaughter most of what's on the board with his units and contest the objectives he doesn't own.
That list is perfect against Imperial Guards, it's fast and there's enough fire power in it to blow up any number of tanks.
It will struggle against some other army type tho... Orks and Tyranids come to mind. Last time I've played against an Ork player in a 2000 pts game he had around 180-190 models on the table complete with Trukks, Nobzs, Loota Boyzs and a Battle Wagon... I can also
This list will be excellent against weak static armies like the IG or even the Space Marines (depending on their setup), it might have some trouble with Tau's skimmers and Suits and I know that it will also have some trouble with a fast mechanised Eldar list. They can drop enough Avengers in your deployment zone by turn 2 to wipe out the Havocs and that's not counting with the Fire Prism or the eternal squad of Fire Dragons in a Falcon... also a squad of Banshees or a squad of Harlequins could stop a unit of Raptors in it's track without too much problem.
To stop his raptor squads you only need to protect your squads with the thing in your list that can withstand any kind of assault... Ogryns. 2 or 3 squads of those strategically deployed could make his life miserable. I hate them, they are too tough...
Now what Plague Marines hate the most are AP2 Blast template and AP3-AP2 weapons in general. If you have any of those in number then feel free to deploy them. My brother used some special weapon teams with some Plasma Guns in them in deep strike to blast them at close range. Really efficient even if they generally don't last long... They are a good diversion anyway.
Last edited by Thyr; February 14th, 2009 at 16:21.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to this thread yet.
I have been running Cameoline, 3 russes, 3 hellhounds, 4 line squads (2 lascaoon, 2 AC) and 3 vet droppers (Meltas), 2 command platoon suicide droppers (grenades, since I use them to drop on objectives), 2 remnant squad droppers (flamer) and 6 mortars lately. A very efficient list for killing most armies, not quite an autoloss for killpoints, but it is still Guard.
I run a take-all-comers list instead of gearing up just to beat MEQs, but this list is good against most MEQs too. If I drop Cameoline, I can fit a heavy weapons squad, but haven't done that against this list yet.
It isn't just listbuilding though, this list, when played well, is just VERY hard. I think Sternguard podding marines would mess it up badly, but I don't play that :p
I'm actually pretty savy about avoiding a multicharge so it rarely happens.
if you got some str 10 weps then his only choice is cover save, he cant get FNP save from weps that dont allow armour save, and moste of the str 10 weps dosent allow armour save, something that could help you is flamers cuz they ignor cover
One way to guarantee at least a draw is to just concentrate on killing the 16 plague marines. This shouldn't be too difficult for 2000 points of guard to acheive and you can then try to sneek a home field objective late in the game.
I think the humble plasmagun is your freind. You are up against 30 jumping close combat monsters backed up by 3 long range tank buster units and 2 tough objective grabbers. As the enemy come to you in 2 waves use plasma guns and lasguns to pump as much firepower into the first wave as you can. Fire the battle cannon and hellhounds at troop concentrations first and then use infantry fire to sweep up the survivours. Try to kill whole units rather than thin out them all as even a 3 man raptor unit will eliminate you in combat or fire 2 meltas at a russ flank armour. Your first target is the raptors containing the chaos Lord. Once 2-3 units have fired at it there should be just the lord remaining and you can then shoot a lascannon heavy weapon squad at him to instant kill his blood soaked hide.
Each of your infantry squads should be las cannon (or ML) + plasmagun. Your platoon command squads should have 3-4 plasmaguns each and a bolter for the Lt. Hardened vets need 3 plasmas and a bolter too. Special weapon squads with 2 meltas and a demo charge are also fun when used as drop troops. 2 flamers and a demo charge may be fun against his havocs but I would ignore the havocs as they should be spending most of the game eliminating your Russes.
As far as tanks go keep them cheap. Three russ and a hellhound or two should be fine but don't put any upgrades on the russ and only a stubber on the hellhounds. The enemy lascannon should thin out your tanks well but AV14 on a russ should alow some to last into the later turns. Put infantry in front of the russ too keep raptors from using their meltaguns against them within 6" range.
To get the points for all the extra plasmaguns just drop all the chameleoline. It is only realy useful on 10 man vet squads with 3 plasmas and a LC. Other than that just use the points for more infantry. "Quantity has a quality all of its own" as Mr Stalin once said.
If you want a counterattack unit then roughriders can work but they are fragile and not that hard hitting. A better option would be 5 grey knight terminators with sacred incense on the brother captain. All chaos models drop a point of initiative when in combat with him and so your 16 WS5 S6 power weapons should kill 1.1 in the shooting phase and 8.9 in combat before the raptors get to fight back. your opponents jaw will now drop but even if he charges them on his next turn the chaos raptors have to wait and take 11 SW5 S6 power weapon attacks that should kill 6 or so. Be sure to kill the chaos Lord or at least keep him away from your grey knights as he can really hurt your terminators.
Remember to force morale and pinning checks on the raptors & havocs. Even though they are Ld10 if he fails one of them it will alow you to concentrate on other units for a turn. If a 4 man raptor unit falls back while the Lord is attached then they cannot rally and there is no way for the fearless Lord to leave the unit as it retreats to his own baseline.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
I'd drop the Cameoline and load up on men.
Use your remnant squads as bait for his raptors and then rapid fire with the nearby infantry. Missile launchers, lascannons, meltas and plasma all help.
Drop a few pie plates on the the plague marines FnP doesn't work against S8. So any who fail cover save are dead. Keep your russes in cover as best you can to avoid havocs
Command squads should load up on plasma or melta and drop near plague marines or marines not in cover. Keep to Lt.s to keep them cheap and expendable.
So to summarise, keep your men cheap, load up on specials and heavy weapons in squads that will counter attack and keep your tanks cheap and in cover.
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff