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  1. #1
    Member Warmaster Phthisis's Avatar
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    Death Guard - 2000pts Aggro All Comers

    Please review the following list for me. This is an 'all comers' list. I don't play in tournaments. I have a very aggressive strategic paradigm. I want to stay as close to fluff as possible while maintaining an overall strategy and true tactical flexibility.


    HQ
    Typhus 225


    Elites
    The Poxhammer
    7 Terminators
    Icon of Nurgle
    7 combi-meltas
    2 chainfists

    The Knights of Onogal
    4 Terminators
    Icon of Nurgle
    4x Lightning Claws (pair)

    The Lantern
    5 Chosen
    Icon of Nurgle
    5x Plasma guns
    Rhino

    Troops
    Squad 1
    7 Plague Marines
    2x flamers
    Plague Champ w/Power Sword & plasma piston
    Rhino

    Squad 2
    7 Plague Marines
    2x Plasma guns

    Squad 3
    7 Plague Marines
    2x Plasma guns

    Heavy Support
    The Vanguard
    5 Havocs
    4x meltaguns
    Icon of Nurgle
    Aspiring Champ w/PF & plasma
    Rhino

    Demolisher

    Last edited by Warmaster Phthisis; August 20th, 2009 at 02:59.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    HQ: He is very good but expensive as hell. If you put him in either termie unit he almost makes them too powerful. They can do without him. Typhus can also be instant killed so I would reccomend a winged MoN Daemon Princce with warptime.

    Elites: First termie unit looks good. I would take a mix of combiplasma and combi melta. You rarely need 7 melta shots in a turn and if you do need them all (to shoot termies for example) then combiplasma would have been better. Second termie unit is inflexible. What if a dread charged them? I would take another unit like your first perhaps with a few single L-claws in there. The chosen are poor. Far easier to kill than PMs and they are a juicy target with all that firepower. Drop them for PMs.

    Troops: Put plasma or meltas on PMs. If you want flamers take combiflamers on the champions or rhinos.

    Heavy: Havocs, again PMs are better (and scoring). If you want more meltas in the unit get combimeltas for the PM champ or rhino.
    Demolisher? I think you mean vindicator. Good.
    Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.

  4. #3
    Member Warmaster Phthisis's Avatar
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    Thanks for replying Mad Cat!

    I think I've done a pretty good job of equipping my army to deal with MEQs, but I believe my weaknesses are ordinance and hordes. I've taken Rhinos to help me avoid getting wiped out by pie plates but other than that who isn't weak to ordinance? I find it interesting that the majority of your criticisms are focused on equipment and units that I have taken specifically to help me against horde type armies. I actually don't fight MEQs very often anymore as my main opponents are Tyranids and Orks. I'm interested in hearing what you would do to counter hordes aggressively.

    I'm attached to the idea of having Typhus as my HQ. I'm actually using Typhus' stats to represent Warmaster Phthisis, my table top avatar. After noticing that many are taking DPs as HQ I considered taking one myself very carefully, however I decided against it because they are extremely vulnerable to concentrated fire. I know that I can bring down a Carnifex fairly reliably in a single turn and a Fex has a better stat line. I don't feel that I can rely on them to do what I need them to. Isn't that why most people who use them take 2 DPs for their HQ at this points level?

    I use my Poxhammer for assassination and busting artillery. My goal is to DS them near my enemy and take them out before they have a chance to react. Meltas work great for penetrating armor and make Ork nobs dissapear in one go. I can see your point with using Plasma guns only if I can rapid fire with them. The rules for combi-weapons in the Chaos dex say that they have enough ammo for a single shot. I took this to mean that you couldn't rapid fire. If you can't rapid fire with a combi-plasma then I'd rather take the combi-melta. If you can then I will switch several of my combi-meltas over to combi-plasmas.

    I can also see your point with the Knights of Onogal. These are a retinue for my Warmaster. I know that they are overkill, but my tactical dogma views overkill as a good thing. I'd hate to see them taken out by a petty little dreadnought. However, I'm not sure what my alternative is. Lightning claw pairs are inexpensive and very effective. I'd have to pay twice as much to get a kit capable of busting a dread.

    As for the Vanguard and Lantern, these are cornerstones of my strategy. I'm an aggressive player and these units are capable of wrecking enemy units in one go. Plague Marines are great, but they don't have the firepower that I need. Were I a defensive player I would be taking loads of PMs. The PM squad with the flamers is designed to push enemy units off of objectives. Objectives are usually pieces of terrain and provide cover. Meltas are strong, but flamers can burn out bunkers and ignore cover. Out of two meltas I'll only get one or two kills. Two flamers have the potential of killing many more.

    Come to think of it, I may do well to give the Plague Champ a combi-flamer. I was 3 points over 2000 anyway.

    Please, I'd love to discuss this more.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    951 (x8)

    HQ: If the enemy put lots of firepower into a daemon prince it means your tanks will survive longer. As MoN makes our princes almost bolter proof the enemy need heavy weapons to take them down. The wings aslo mean the prince can hop to LOS blocking cover to get closer. A cheap prince with MoN and doombolt can also work. If the enemy want to commit all that firepower to killing a 140 point model let them.

    Elites: Your L-claw termies should include a single CF and combimelta guy. That should deal with dreads and give you the ability to shoot a tank as you teleport then charge soething else next turn. Because you cannot charge when you teleport the combi weapons make a fantastic secondary role and give you something to do on that turn. Using up your combimeltas etc also makes you less of a target ironically.
    Combiplasmas do get to rappidfire if the range is 12" or less but only for one turn.

    Troops: I think you wory too much about hordes. If you take an all PM force the FNP and blight grenades will be more than enough to deal with hordes. I never worry about gaunts or hormagaunts. Steelers and rending warriors/ravenors I do wory about but not the gaunts. Deploying in cover gives you another chance to thin out the numbers as few hordes have offensive grenades.

    Chosen/Havocs: Yes PMs have less firepower but they will get to use it more. Put yourself in your opponents shoes. If you have the choice between shooting PMs or some chosen who happen to have twice the firepower and no FNP which are you going to shoot? Result = dead chosen and havocs. If you take all PMs he has to shoot them and they all can claim objectives.
    Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.

  6. #5
    Member Ilkar's Avatar
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    I'd have to agree with Mad Cat. Plague Marines can deal with hordes no problem- gaunts and boys go down fairly easily from bolter fire, and I usually give my squads a couple of plasma for anything bigger. Don't be too scared of cc, so long as it isn't a massive squad- the PMs should be able to take it.

    I use a single nurgle DP and either he survives and wreaks havoc, or my tanks do any my army is still well protected and mobile into the late game. Sure, you can't usually pick and choose who survives, but it's unlikely they'll take out your tanks AND your DP. If you're adamant about using Typhus then that's fine, just watch out for intant-kill wounds.

    I'd rather take at least some of poxhammer with plasma. A Combi-plasma can be used to rapid-fire with plamsa. They deal with nobs just as easily and light tanks almost as easily, and they get twice as many shots if you get to rapid-fire. Also, if you're deep striking them, then you should be looking at side or rear armour anyway.

    I think a powerfist (or chainfist, if you prefer) would be a good idea for the knights, to give them the extra versatility they may well need. Take a chainfist out of Poxhammer if you're concerned about points costs.

    Taking the chosen and havocs over more PMs is your choice I guess. They are more destructive but are also easier to take out. Three PM squads may be enough for 2k, but with your only long-ranged support harder than AV11 on the first turn could mean most of your expensive, short-ranged units are either walking or driving into an undepleted enemy. There are other options for replacement than PMs- defilers, obliterators, a second vindicator (or the classic 100pt predator if you still struggle with hordes) are all tough units that pack a punch too.

  7. #6
    Member Warmaster Phthisis's Avatar
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    Here's my revised list:

    HQ
    Typhus

    Elites
    The Poxhammer
    7 Terminators
    Icon of Nurgle
    3 combi-meltas
    4 combi-plasma
    1 chainfist

    The Knights of Onogal
    4 Terminators
    Icon of Nurgle
    3 pairs of Lightning Claws
    1 combi-melta
    1 chainfist

    The Lantern
    5 chosen
    Icon of Nurgle
    5 plasma guns
    Rhino

    Troops
    Squad 1
    7 Plague Marines
    2 flamers
    Plague Champion
    combi-flamer
    power weapon
    meltabombs
    Rhino

    Squad 2
    7 Plague Marines
    2 plasma guns

    Squad 3
    7 Plague Marines
    2 plasma guns

    Heavy Support
    The Vanguard
    5 Havocs
    Icon of Nurgle
    4 meltaguns
    1 Aspiring Champ
    combi-melta
    powerfist
    Rhino

    Vindicator
    combibolter



    I think you were spot on with the Knights and Poxhammer. I'm going to hold fast to The Lantern and Tyhpus. I've been using The Lantern in games for a few years now and it's been a game winner for me. This is the unit that all of my regular opponents fear.
    I also know how well PMs can resist hordes. My overall strategy isn't to resist though. My strategy is to hit them hard and fast. I want to wipe squad out before they can do any damage. My anti-horde equipment isn't designed to defeat them in a protracted firefight or a multi-turn mele, it's designed to smash them to pieces quickly so I can move on and smash something else.

    What's the verdict?

  8. #7
    Member Ilkar's Avatar
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    In my opinion, nothing says anti-horde from the chaos 'dex like the AC/HB Predator, maybe with a Havoc Launcher. I'm just not a fan of flamers, but your set up is arguably more versatile.

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