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  1. #1
    Member Trouser Tyrant's Avatar
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    Taking Daemons to the Local Tournament

    So, the local GW store is holding a tournament a while from now and I was feeling like showing my devotion to the dark gods by bringing in my Daemons. I had thought out a list and wanted some feed back on it. It’s good to get an opinions from other followers.

    Tournament Grade Daemons 2250
    HQ-
    Skull Taker on Chariot
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch

    Elite-
    4 Flamers of Tzeentch
    --
    3 Flamers

    Troops-
    9 Blood Letters
    --
    9 Blood Letters
    --
    10 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch & Icon
    --
    9 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Changeling, Bolt of Tzeentch & Icon
    --
    5 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch & Icon
    --
    5 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch

    Fast Attack-
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch
    --
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch
    --
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch

    Heavy Support-
    Daemon Prince w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze
    --
    Soul Grinder w/ Phlegm
    --
    Soul Grinder w/ Phlegm

    Group A – Blitzkrieg
    3 Heralds of Tzeentch
    4 Squads of Horrors
    2 Soul Grinders


    Group B- Melee Assault
    Skull Taker
    2 Squads of Flamers
    2 Squads Blood Letters
    3 Squads of Screamers
    Daemon Prince



    The initial strategy is, fighting any army with a main stream Armor Save of +4 or worse, will be obliterated by the mind shattering torrent of Warp Fire and Phlem Templates. Then in the turns to fallow, I use the icons to bring down the melee monsters and get them to mop up any survivors.

    When fighting against an army with MEQs, I use the first wave of Horrors as a Screen and call down my melee units behind them and advance. Once they get into melee, it pretty much solves the problem of +3 or +2 armor saves.

    Strengths-
    All of them carried by the Daemons Army (Fearless, Eternal Warrior, Deep Striking, Inv)
    Strong Anti-Infantry
    High Invulnerable Saves
    A Large Force (For Daemons anyways)

    Weaknesses-
    All of the ones that Daemons normally have to deal with (Low Saves, Everything is Expensive, an all-pewter range, Land Raiders ect…)

    I feel there is a noticeable lack of anti-monster and anti-armor in the list, that just might be my imagination (As I am to use to playing LATD with 7 Bolts of Change and 9 Lascannons)




    A few comments of my own-

    A) I would like to have more Flamers, but I find the more I have, the more they go to waste. I was told that 3 squads of 3 is the best way to go, but I couldn’t bring myself to pay the points. I know Fiends and Blood Crushers are the higher end favorites of most players, but this month, about 50% or more of the players will be playing guard (Our local store is a sucker for them, and most love the armor flavor) and I can’t really rely on rolling a 6 just to get an additional d3 in rending. Auto glancing on 4+ is not that much better, but I find Breath of Chaos more effective and versatile.

    B ) Screamers, I love Melta Bombs, I hate 1 Attack per model, I love Jet Bike Movement, I hate WS 3, but I really love +4 Inv Saves and only 16 points a model. I know they could be better at vehicle killing, but with the many armor lists I will have to face, wasting a few 16 point guys to kill off a Russ or Land Raider is worth it. And they do serve other roles. But is 3 squads of 3 too much?

    C) Daemon Prince, I wanted to give him the Iron Hide and the Mark so he would be staying around, but the points could be spent else where.
    Has anyone fielded a Daemon Prince (Competitively, I have used this build many times while having friendly games) with the Mark Tzeentch and no Iron Hide, how survivable do you find it?

    D) My Soul Grinders roll with Phlegm, as it is a short-range, assault Battle Cannon. The Tongue is cool, being a short-range, assault Rail Gun. But I feel it is wasted thanks to their BS of 3.
    Is it worth it to pay the extra 25 points on one or both Soul Grinders to get the Tongue?

    E) ( 1.0 ) Skull Taker on Chariot mostly exists to deal with other multi wound/ monstrous creatures. He is a personal favorite and possibly the best melee infantry unit in the game. Sadly,for his point cost, I could trade him in of a HoT and still have points left over.


    ( 2.0 ) If I was to free up this list for more Points, I would take out Skull Taker, Replace him with a HoT and remove an Icon from the small Pink Horror Squad. This would free up about 75. If I do this, what should it be spent on? I was possibly thinking of joining the two small horror squads and buying a small unit of Plaguebearers.


    I would like some constructive feed back. I know this is one of the armies in 40k that split players down the middle (Like Fiends or Blood Crushers, GUO is not as good as Bloodthirster, but GUO costs a little more then half his points, Flesh Hounds are garbage, no they are not- they assault 12’…and so on and so on) but I am open to improvements. This list is met to be mostly shooty with melee support, thus the reason of Flamers and not the other elite choices.


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  3. #2
    Herald of Chaos Tyrius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trouser Tyrant View Post

    Tournament Grade Daemons 2250
    HQ-
    Skull Taker on Chariot
    Just go with all Heralds of T on chariots
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch

    Elite-
    4 Flamers of Tzeentch
    Use units of 3 if you are taking these, which I wouldn't suggest

    --
    3 Flamers

    Troops-
    9 Blood Letters
    --
    9 Blood Letters
    Would drop these for some objective holding plaguebearers
    10 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch & Icon
    Don't need icons especially on fragile units
    --
    9 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Changeling, Bolt of Tzeentch & Icon
    --
    5 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch & Icon
    --
    5 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch
    Don't need icons especially on fragile units espcecially 3. Thats a whole lot useless wargear.The reason being they will likely die and be a target with the icon on them. Icons don't work for your first wave, which is the most crucial.
    Fast Attack-
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch
    --
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch
    --
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch
    Cheap units good for boosting a first wave but with recent changes to most armies being able to move their vehicles and shoot you are less likely to even hit with the 3 attacks on 4+/6+
    Heavy Support-
    Daemon Prince w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze
    Would give him bold and dg
    Soul Grinder w/ Phlegm
    --
    Soul Grinder w/ Phlegm
    I am all for either 3 dps or 3 soul grinders. If you go with a mix you just give your opponents targets to use their guns on. IE: if they have av its all going at your SGs.



    ( 2.0 ) If I was to free up this list for more Points, I would take out Skull Taker, Replace him with a HoT and remove an Icon from the small Pink Horror Squad. This would free up about 75. If I do this, what should it be spent on? I was possibly thinking of joining the two small horror squads and buying a small unit of Plaguebearers. I would recommend this.
    So the list would look like this:

    Tournament Grade Daemons ????
    HQ-
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch
    -
    Herald of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Master of Sorcery, We are Legion & Bolt of Tzeentch

    Elite-
    3 Flamers
    --
    3 Flamers
    --
    3 Flamers

    Troops-
    10 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch -changling
    --
    10 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch
    --
    10 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Bolt of Tzeentch
    --
    5 plaguebearers
    --
    5 plaguebearers
    --
    5 plaguebearers

    Fast Attack-
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch
    --
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch
    --
    3 Screamers of Tzeentch

    Heavy Support-
    Daemon Prince w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze, Bolt of T
    --
    Daemon Prince w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze, Bolt of T
    --
    Daemon Prince w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Daemonic Gaze, Bolt of T

    I would also consider taking Kairos, The fateweaver. This is just a rough idea. If you take Kairos I would stick with the 3 dps if not you could swap in 3 soulgrinders. If you face much melta fire don't bother with SGs. This is rough estimate of units to get and things to try.

    1st wave:
    4 heralds/3 demonprinces/3 screamers
    3 horrors/3 plaguebearers/3 flamers.
    Last edited by Tyrius; September 15th, 2009 at 01:27.
    My upcoming blog in the works:
    http://plasticrackminis.blogspot.com/

  4. #3
    Member Trouser Tyrant's Avatar
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    Thank you for the advice. Right now I am tweaking the list, with what you have suggested, I have about 250 pts left. A few questions.

    1) I know Bloodletters are more expensive then then Plaguebearers, but I had them in there to deal with MEQs, since Horrors don't obliterate them. Also you suggested daemon princes that cost more then Soul Grinders with Phlegm. Since the distinct lack of MEQ slaying power, I was going to take the Soul Grinders over the DPs. Good choice?

    2) Plaguebearers are good at surviving, but not so much at fighting. They could hold the objective better then a bloodletter, but they cannot even come close to taking a guarded objective. I can see why to have 1 or 2 squads of them, but why need 3? I would preform to opt out one squad for some sheer melee slaying of bloodletters. If they can get behind the horrors for their first turn, they would get a +4 cover save and live to make it to battle. Which brings me to the next point.

    3) Icons, I see none of them in your revamped list. I find newer daemon player favor them and some of the veterans despise them. Out of them many games I have played, I find Icons are far more useful then not in most cases as I roll horrible for scatter dice (one turn loosing a Soul Grinder and a Daemon Prince, then having another Daemon Prince whisked back to the warp.) It sucks that they are 25 points each (where CSM get them for 5.) I was thinking of putting at least one icon in the squad with the changeling in so, hopping that enemy fire drawn to him will fail to the glamor and end up shooting their own teammates or just getting them not to shoot at all would be nice (but I don't think any player would fall for that.) So, would an Icon live in his squad? with a +4 Inv save and the chance to direct fire elsewhere (to take advantage of the guard's crappy LD.)

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