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I'm looking to start a Chaos Daemon army so I built up a list before I started buying. Bloodletter models are the reason I wanted to play Chaos Daemons so I'm leaning Khorne obviously. I'm willing to add non-Khorne units to have an effective list but I want to keep the majority Khorne.
HQ - 250
Troops - 640
Bloodletters of Khorne x15
Bloodletters of Khorne x15
Bloodletters of Khorne x10
Heavy Support - 110
Demon Prince of Chaos w/ Mark of Slaneesh and Unholy Might
Total - 1000
The issues I see with it: I don't have anything that can move quickly but, with so many hard hitters Deep Striking I'm hoping nothing will be able to run away fast enough. Also, I'm worried it might be too hard hitting with 2 Monsterous Creatures taking up 360 points.
Is the Blood Thirster too much? Should I drop him and get 2 Heralds with upgrades? Should I drop the Demon Prince for some plaguebearers to hold back objectives?
Tips to keep it majority Khorne but, still be effective?
Lastly: I hate the Daemon Prince model. How posable is the model? Is he stuck "turning left"? And if so, I'd rather go with the Nurgle Daemon Prince model (because I'm not spending that much on the ForgeWorld Khorne Prince!). Would it be weird to have a Khorn Daemon Prince with the Mark of Slaneesh with a Nurgle model?
Despite no responses I went ahead and revised it a little with some help from Sir Spamalot
250 - Blood Thirster
240 - Bloodletters of Khorne x15
224 - Bloodletters of Khorne x14
100 - Plaguebearers of Nurgle x5 w/Chaos Icon
100 - Plaguebearers of Nurgle x5 w/Chaos Icon
85 - Seekers of Slaanesh x5
Total - 999
Put in the Plaguebearers to screen and assist with the drops then retreat back to objective grabbing. Next added the seekers for a faster attack. A little bummed about losing the Demon Prince but this list is probably more effective.
What do people use for Seekers? I was thinking some demonettes on skeleton/zombie horses.
Also, what are you thoughts on having 3 Bloodletter squads with 10, 10, 9 rather than 2 at 15 and 14? Would it give me too many kill points? Are they less effective in lower numbers?
Last edited by Kelter Skelter; September 21st, 2009 at 07:37.
For seekers, some daemonettes on horses work well, but I personally used the arms, heads, and torsos of dryads, mixed with some cheap spiders from the Orc/Goblin army. This results in a centaur-spider creature similar to Lolth/Driders from D&D (if you follow that).
A bloodcrusher seems like overkill at this point level. I like the plaguebearers in your revised list, but I'd drop the seekers (I like them, but you need at least 9 for them to survive, and there isn't room at this point level).
Overall, you need something that can stand in front, and/or destroy vehicles in both halves of the list. Something to help against high initiative horde (like genestealers) would also be nice.
I'd drop the bloodcrusher and take two heralds of Tzeench on chariots with breath and master of sorcery instead (one for each half of the army). I'd also drop the seekers and cut the units of bloodletters down to 10 each. If something can kill 10 bloodletters, then they can probably kill 14-15 as well, so it's best not to overspend on them.
With the remaining points, I'd either add 2 daemon princes with mark of tzeentch and bolt, or 2 units of 4 fiends of slaanesh, and use the leftover points to bolster the numbers of the troops a bit. Either the princes or fiends will help a lot against vehicles.
I have a few counter points for your comments as to why I chose what I did or don't what to change it to your suggestion, those are as follows:
Everytime you said Bloodcrusher I know you meant Blood Thirster, no worries. The reason I kind of wanted to keep him was because first I want to have a little fun with list and I plan to expand it to 1500 points as soon as I get this one up and running. Also, since I have the money now I figured I should buy him while I can!
The small Plaguebarer squads are pretty much there to screen the drop and stand in front soaking up the damage, slowing things down.
I would really like to stay away from pretty much all of the Tzeetch stuff unless it's some Horrors/Flamers or the of the Lord of Change. Also I REAAALLLY don't want to convert any chariots. Are they any other Herald types or unit types I could get away with in this list instead?
The reason I put the Bloodletters in such big squads is because I wanted them to be able to get shot at incase they scatter bad or somthing unexpected happens and still be effective. Will this not be a concern with 10?
As for the Princes with Bolt, I know it'll be really helpful to have somthing to shoot at vehicles with but with just the 1 shot I'm pretty much sure to miss the shot. It's just the way of my dice luck. Is there another Prince configuration that would be good against vehicles, although it'll be melee, such as a Prince with wings?
Fiends are RREEEAAALLYY expensive (dollar wise). Especially for that many. Is there another unit that works in it's place? Perhaps if I bolster the number of Seekers?
Last edited by Kelter Skelter; September 22nd, 2009 at 21:52.
Thirster! Bloodthirster! Why is everything 'blood' with khorne, anway?
If you don't like chariots, and are willing to pay the cost, then a bloodthirster is alright, but don't expect him to be invincible, as most of your opponent's shooting will target him first.
Yes, bad scatters are a problem with 10 bloodletters, but it's even more of a problem with 15. Every now and then (probably once a game) you're going to scatter badly and something bad is going to happen. Keeping the units relatively cheap and expendable will mean the difference between a minor setback and a major one.
One shot bolts with daemon princes aren't a problem because they have a BS of 5. You'll hit on anything besides a 1. It's not guaranteed, but in 40k, nothing is. I'm afraid if you don't accept 'one shot' bolts, then you're not going to have any anti-armor shooting in the list at all. If you're comfortable with that, then I'd invest in some fast units that strike with strength 6 or are monstrous creatures (daemon princes with wings, fiends, and screamers, for example).
Fiends are indeed expensive, which is why I made all mine out of plastic Chaos Spawn models.
It's not that I don't like chariots it's that I don't want to convert them. I don't want to have to buy a fantasy chariot box plus a chaos box then spend all of the time to convert them. I'm lazy and I don't want to spend money on stuff that I can't use all of.
I play tested with bloodletters at squads of 9 and the problem I had was them getting shot down to 3 letters before they were able to launch an attack, had to attack through cover and died before they got a single attack off. Probably bad deepstrike planning on my part but, I didn't have a lot of option at the time. It made me want bigger squads. But, I do think I'll stick with the 10man squads and work on my drop tactics.
When I'm dropping i tend to hope for the best but plan for the worst, luckily I didn't have any problems this time but, I'm aware I should expect them to not all make it.
I really don't want to put my faith in 1 shot bolts, I'll miss them every time, I have terrible dice rolls. If I roll 6 dice I'll get 4 of them as 1s or 2s at least. This I can't change so I usually stay away from one shot things.
Finally is there a reason you suggest Fiends over Seekers? I feel like Seekers having genandes plus the higher initiative plus being half the cost lets you take twice as many bodies and always strike first even though cover which I feel more than negates the fact that they're weaker than Fiends, especially considering the Seekers are still rending.
You've thrown a lot of proverbials wrenches into the gears of my list so I'll have to spend some time revising it.
If bolts that hit on 2+ aren't your thing, then you'll have to assault vehicles in order to destroy them. For that, monstrous creatures with wings, screamers, and fiends are your best options. Nothing else is both fast and strong enough to bring down vehicles.
Fiends strike with strength 6 on the charge, and seekers only strike with strength 3. It's the difference between being able to deal with vehicles or not. Seekers can 'possibly' destroy a vehicle, but with a group of fiends it's all but guaranteed, as long as the target isn't a land raider or monolith.