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Here is my first 1850 CSM list that I want feedback on,... thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated
Sorcerer Biker - w/ Familiar, Doombolt & Gift o Chaos - MoN
DP - w/ Warptime - MoN
6 Bikers - w/ Champ, 1x Melta, 1x Plasma - Icon - MoN // Champ has Plasma Pistol & PW
7 Bikers - w/ Champ, 1x Melta, 1x Plasma - Icon - MoN // Champ has CCW
Predator - w/ Daemonic Possession, Lascannons all over and Havoc Launcher
10x Plague Marines w/ Champ - MoN - 9x BP, 7x Bolters, 1x Melta, 1x Plasma, 9x CCW // Champ has Powr Fist /// all in a Rhino w/ Daemonic Possession, Twin Linked Bolter & Havoc Launcher
8x Chaos Marines w/ Champ - MoN - 7x BP, 6x Bolters, 7x CCW, 1x Melta // Champ has Combi Flamer, Pwr Fist & Plasma Pistol /// all in a Rhino w/ Extra Armor, Twin Linked Bolter & Havoc Launcher
List comes out to be 1849
Thanks for looking and I look forward to thoughts on this list
very expensive rhinos, and you will not even be able to use the havoc launchers for half the game, and if you do you might as well have let the plague marines walk
i like the concept a lot, but i have not seen it worthwhile to use extra armor or havoc launchers or possesion( in fact with possesion extra armor has no effect), though i do like a combi melta on my rhinos.
same with lascannon turrets, its a lot of points tied up in there for dubious gains over the auto cannon
i like having troops, you only have 2 in just under 2000 points, i would use the points i described to buy another unit of troops, might have to drop a ,very expesive but fun bike, or two to make it work, but i think it will be better that way
Last edited by Prisoner37; December 22nd, 2009 at 20:39.
Those Troops choices are very vulnerable. If they are destroyed you might not be able to win. I would get at least 1 more.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
Good advice so far. Usually, I give some rationale behind my recommendations; however, today I'm short of time, so I'll just cut to the chase:
Sorcerer: Rather expensive. You're generally better off dropping Gifts and taking Warp Time. Also, he'll likely be teaming up with a bike squad, which means he should have plenty of offensive support. For this reason, I'm also suggesting you drop Doombolt (and therefore, the familiar as well).
Bikes: Don't mix special weapons. It may seem like you're gaining versatility, but in reality, you're merely losing efficiency. Take dual melta guns for armor busting. Also, there's no reason to upgrade the unit with a champ if he's not getting at least a power weapon (preferably a power fist). Finally, drop the plasma pistol from the champ. It's just too darn risky. Losing an expensive model to a "gets hot" roll is more common than people realize, especially when that model costs... what... 86 points?
Pred: Daemonic possession should only be reserve for vehicles that fire either ordinance or primarily twin-linked weapons. Otherwise, the reduction in BS is too costly. What's more, this particular predator configuration isn't exactly cost-effective. You're far better off leaving the las-turret at home and taking the stock auto-cannon.
Plague Marines: Again, don't mix special weapons.
Chaos Marines: Your champion doesn't need two ranged upgrades, since he can only fire one at any time (too much conditional redundancy). In this case, you might consider giving him a combi-melta, which matches the other special weapon in the squad?
Rhinos: Extra Armor on a rhino is virtually the same thing as Daemonic Possession, and 5 points cheaper. Still, our transports are designed to be cheap ways of getting our infantry from here-to-there. Additional upgrades usually don't add much in the way of staying power or, for that matter, offense. Best to keep them with no additional upgrades.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I agree with the general trend of: Focus your specialization, and trim some fat to add models. Going biker-centric is points-heavy so you are going to be outnumbered very often. That said, I am also a big fan of fluffy armies. Here are my specific recoendations:
Sorcerer Biker - I'm not a big fan of Gift of Chaos personally, it never seems to work when I need it to. I do try it out once in a while. I'd love to see the model riding around with the familiar mounted to the front fender like a carcass!
DP - Awesome
6 Bikers - 7 strong with the Sorc, got it. Very Nurgly. I'm a fan of double meltas.
7 Bikers - Unless the CCW is at least a PW I would ditch the champ. Though I would personally go double melta again, double plasma here might help widdle down hordes.
Predator - Ditch the demonic posession. The loss of 1 BS when you are down to 3 shots coult mean this great big tank is only HITTING once per turn, with rolls yet to be made for penetration or wounding. If you insist on Demonic Posession I would at least leave the autocannon turret to increase your shots. Predators are the only vehicles I ever put havocs on.
10x Plague Marines - Fine, but most choose to do either double plasma or double melta, though personall I would trim this to 7 models to make it nurgly; they're still effective with three fewer models. The rhinos are just fine barebone. Cuts made here (3 models and vehicle upgrades) could almost make a while unit!
8x Chaos Marines - Another model trimmed here (to 7 models) could go to the new unit. The champ does not need two shooty weapons; of the two I could keep the combi flamer. It hurts to lose a power fist to Gets Hot! in his first turn. Same points on Rhino, though the extra armor is MUCH more reasonable than DP.
Overall, at least one more troops choice will give more flexibility in a meaningful way. But as is you look to have at the least a FUN army list.
All the comments so far are good comments. I would add that since you are missing troops and that you have a pretty fast army, why not try a few deamons? With the comments and my idea of deamons here is 1848 point army that binds a lot of ideas together and adds mine.
Sorcerer, Bike, MoN, warptime
DP, Wings, MoN, warptime
7 Plague Marines, Champ, Powerfist, 2 meltaguns, rhino, personnal icon
7 Plague Marines, Champ, Powerfist, 2 plasmaguns, rhino with additional combi-bolter, personnal icon
7 Lesser deamons
7 Lesser deamons
Predator, Autocannon, Lascannon Sponson
"Iron Within, Iron Without"