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So I am completely green to the game. I've been flipping through the codexs for a few years now but now have plenty of cash to drop and lots of people to play with. I signed up for the GW acadamy classes and chose a box of thousand sons to learn the painting techniques. I hadn't made a choice yet on army yet til tonight.
So far I gotz a
2x Thousand sons troops
5 man termy squad
Haven't made any more decisions yet. I'm thinking at leawst 1 defiler, possibly 2. Someone in another thread recommended some obliterators. I was also planning on at least 1 rhino attachment to add some mobility. Also should i filla troop choice with regular CSM?
Anny suggestions would be appreciated. Remember I'm a noob and I'm not to worried bout price at this point. i want to build at least a nice 1k pt army possibly 1.5-2k if I like it. I want something at least sorta competitive. As cool as Sons look, I'd like to win a game or 2 here and there. Please be gentle. I'm a noob.
Sons are okay, very expensive points wise though due to the sorc that they are forced to take. You're going to want at least 3 rhinos for 1000 pts and 4+ for 1500 pts. I'd also recommend getting the defiler like you suggested, and maybe a vindicator and a demon prince.
I'm also a huge fan of nurgle and Khorne marines, though most here would tell you to get CSM.
k so i've been doing some number crunching and came up with this.
-Mark Of T
-Gift of Chaos
I chose this because of the manueverablitity and the uber spells
2 Squads Termies (4 each)
These are for deepstriking with icons to either protect my TS troops or go on the offensive for tank hunting or HQ bashing
2 Squads TS (16 reg. troops)
-2 lascannon upgrades
total 1378/1500 122pts left
I'm thinking 2 rhinos for my TS for maneuverabililty/cover/funneling enemy troops i think thats 70 pts for the 2 so 52 pts left after that.
If i don't take em I don't know what to do then. A lot of people I'm betting r saying my HQ is too exspensive. I see him as almost as powerful as ahriman but a bit cheaper. I don't really see the greatness of a winged prince. If you could explain y that'd be better, i'd like to hear it. I'd also like to hear some thoughts on a CCW dreadnaught and how that might help my TS.
Last edited by thundrchickn; March 27th, 2010 at 15:12.
Not bad at all to start. While I haven't used Tzeentch much they do have some strong points. Comments in red below
A winged DP is just so amazing b/c hes mobile, hard to drop especially with MoT and 4+ invul, and can take on absolutely anything.
He's a monstrous creature so rolls his Str + 2D6 to armor and ignores armor saves on models with a toughness. Also with the Tzeentch build you can get the gift of chaos + warptime combo like the sorc, but will also be much more effective in combat too since he has a higher str. This will allow you to destroy vehicles very reliably with warptime's rerolls to hit combined with a high str and the MC bonus. As well, with a high toughness and immunity to instant death, he can fly around on his own without a unit to babysit him.
Furthermore, the sorc would not be able to use the force weapon's power to instant kill a model if he used warptime + gift, thus the bonus is lost and just becomes a power weapon. However, with a DP you can just put several wounds on anything and/or instant kill anything with a T3 or less per hit anyways. Convinced that he's good yet?
I sometimes use a couple dreads but more often than not wish I'd taken something else. They're too unreliable and have the chance to kill your own units and the last thing you would need is to lose some expensive thousand sons from dread fire. He's good when he's up in the enemy's face, but is a liablity for the first few turns. The drawback is we don't have a method to deliver one into the enemy whereas SM can drop pod them in on turn 1. You're better off taking a unit of chosen for your last elite slot if you want reliablity
Last edited by Astynax; March 27th, 2010 at 07:47. Reason: Missed the questions.
Hej and welcome to the world of chaos !
I started with 1k sons as well and after lots of changing my list I came up with that one, and I doing fairly well with that list below, maybe that gives some additional inspiration.
On a side note: You're not allowed to post single point costs, just the overall costs... (Against forum rules)
1 Demon Prince 200
1 Bolt of Change
1 Demon Prince 185
5 Terminator 220
1 Heavy Flamer
4 Combi Plasma
3 Terminator 105
3 Combi Melta
8 Chaos Space Marine 180
1 Power fist
5 Thousand Son 190
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
1 Personal Icon
5 Thousand Son 190
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
1 Personal Icon
2 Oblitorerator 150
2 Oblitorerator 150
1 Oblitorerator 75
3 Rhino 105
Are the Oblitorators that good. I was thinking of using the defilers w/fleet as a buffer for the TS troops. Any info u can give on the advantages/disadvantages of the oblits would be nice.
Well it's quite simple, if you field oblis, take as many as possible, same goes for Defilers...
Since both of them are going to be high prio targets from your enemy.
I prefer the Oblis since i can have them in cover (as example behind the rhinos) to get a +4 all the time sometimes even +3 if you have a fortified position somewhere, and then they are pure nasty.
I like that they can morph whatever weapon needed and that you could also deepstrike them (i rarely do that, besides from my suicide termi melta squad).
You can spread them around your board so you see every enemy from at least one of you Oblis.
Of course they are not as devastating in CC as the Defilers, but even the defilers can be killed quite easily, so..
The defilers i've fielded normally died too quickly on me.
I guess that's also a bit of a personal thing.. so it is a matter of taste. some swear by the defiler, some by the Oblits.
I prefer the defiler especially when rhinos are taken, otherwise all the AT fire will be directed at your AV11. While AV 12 is not significantly stronger, defilers will ignore shaken/stunned and thus soak up a lot more fire to leave your rhinos unmolested.
As for using defilers, you need to keep them in cover as they will not get immobilized unlike vehicles in terrain. I think that defilers will compliment thousand sons moreso than obliterators as you need something with a CC punch and threat close up to cover your weaknesses. Obliterators are slow just like your TS and slow will not help slow. I think one of the biggest benefits of defiler vs oblit is their fleet. Add two DCCW and you can move, fleet and charge up to 18" for 6 Str 10 attacks.
When Ive used oblits I've found their damage output isnt high enough compared to the defilers unless they are properly supported for precision strikes.
Defilers vs Oblits - is basically mass damage (high # of DCCW hits + battlecannon) vs versatility
Last edited by Astynax; March 27th, 2010 at 17:26.
Astynax hit on a major point. no one can say that oblits are not great, but they are not armor. One of CSM's major strengths is in our troops, and to get our troops where we want them to be we need rhino's, by taking oblits we make our rhinos the only real target for anti tank units.
to make our rhino's less tempting as targets we need defilers, pred and vindicator's. meaning oblits fit better into an infantry army, or an army that will actually use their 3 plasma cannons effectively, like a lash list
Chaos has arguably the best HQ (Daemon Prince) choice and two of the best Troop (Plague Marines and Chaos Marines) choices in the game.
I also think that we have three of the strongest Heavy choices availible also: The Defiler, the Vindicator and the Obliterator.
Each are suited for different support roles.
Defilers lend anti-infantry plus close combat anti-tank and heavy infantry support.
Vindicators lend medium range anti-tank and heavy infantry support.
Lastly, Obliterators excel at long range anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry.
Defilers and Vindis serve an additional purpose: they soak up antitank from your Rhinos. I tend to rely heavily on 3 Defilers. They are fire magnets. If they aren't killed, the usually "wreck shop." Luckily, they do get shot up, allowing my three Plague Marine filled Rhinos to get in position. At that point in the game, my Plague Marines usually go unscathed as nothing is really near them that can reliably harm them. That's the advantage when your opponent thinks he HAS to ignore your Rhinos in favor of taking out other targets like your Defilers.
But I digress...
"Men attract not what they want but instead what they are."