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Been a long time since I had a new army to try out, but I decided to give the daemonic legions a try. This is a try at fielding an all god list. Any feedback on it would be nice.
Herald of Slannesh 50
Herald of Khorne 70
Herald of Tzeentch 50
Herald of Nurgle 50
8 bloodletters of khorne 128
9 horrors of tzeentch 157
7 plaguebearers of nurgle 105
6 daemonettes of slaanesh 84
3 nurglings 39
3 fiends of slaanesh 90
2 bloodcrushers of khorne 80
2 bests of nurgle 70
5 flesh hounds of khorne 75
3 screamers of tzeentch 48
5 seekers of slaanesh 85
soul grinder of chaos - phlegm 160
daemon prince of chaos - 80
daemon prince of chaos 80
Total points: 1501
I know it's 1 point over, but the guys I with allow 5 points over. The plan is to field the khorne and nurgle bunch in the 1st cohort as they have higher toughness so should be able to survive. If fates are against me, the other wave has Tzeentch units for survivability instead. Soul grinder will join first wave.
So any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks
on a scale from 1 to 10 about fluffiness, this hits the all-time high. that being said, this list is going to fail (no offense)
beasts of nurgle are the worst elites you could've taken. id say drop them. for about the same points you can get more plaguebearers. flamers are also a better choice (a group of 3)
screamers of tzeentch are also terrible and flesh hounds of khorne are also really bad. they wont be able to do anything. meltabombs require high rolls to hit and flesh hounds have no access to anti-tank or anti-meqs.
the herald of nurgle is also the worst of all of them, and i'd say drop him too.
with the points you saved from dropping those 4:
1) add 6 more daemonettes. daemonettes, at t3 will die so fast in groups less than 10.
2) add more plaguebearers. stop keeping everything in favored numbers.
3) give your herald of slaanesh pavane, unholy might and a chariot
4) add 2 more bloodcrushers of khorne
5) give your Daemon Princes some upgrades ... i dont know why they are naked
6) add 2 icons into some of your units.
7) add or remove (i strongly suggest remove) the nurglings
Thanks for the advice, I like to keep one competitive army, and then the rest I fluff up. My mech imperial guard are my competitive army, so should I ever want an army that can win with ease, this is the one for me.
Having said that, your advice is very sound.
1. Would you advise putting them as 1 unit of 12 or 2 units of 6?
2. Up to a unit of 10 would probably be my limit as I am not too fussed on their 1 attack
3. Is a chariot worth it for losing independant character rule, meaning it can't join units? Also, is the pavane worth all those points?
5. They were naked in this list for 2 reasons: 1, they were only there to rip vehicles up in combat and 2, I had run out of points and was reluctant to only field 1 in case he came with the wrong cohort.
6. I found the icons expensive, considering they need to be on the table for them to work, means at least half the army won't benefit?
7. again, they were there just for fluff to give each power 1 of each of their units (except tzeentch due to lack of elite slots). Therefore they can go.
if i were you and i got to rewrite the list, i'd do this:
-Soul Grinder - Phlegm
-Daemon Prince - Daemonic Flight + Mark of Khorne + Unholy Strength
-Daemon Prince - Daemonic Flight + Mark of Tzeentch + Bolt of Change
The reason the Daemon Princes have Daemonic Flights is because you claim the Daemon Princes are there to hunt vehicles. All vehicles can move up to 12". Others (fast vehicles) can move up to 18". Excluding stationary fighting vehicles (ie. Leman Russ Battle Tanks, Artillery Tanks, etc.), you're Daemon Princes without Daemonic Flight won't be able to catch up.
-10 Plaguebearers, 1 with Icon
-3 Fiends of Slaanesh
-Herald of Tzeentch + Chariot + Bolt of Change
I don't have my codex in front of me, but it should be about 1500 pts. I had to cut a lot from what you gave me, but I gave you a list that's a lot better. Regarding your earlier question about whether losing Independent Character is worth it, I'd say it is. The Masque is in your list because she can Pavane up to 3 times. The Herald of Tzeentch is pretty much a drop in front of a tank and bolt it to death.
Overall, I basically agree with the advice already given in the thread. Daemonettes won't survive in groups of less than 12, and 15-20 is better.
I wouldn't use any of the following: beasts of nurgle (worst unit in the army), screamers of tzeentch (not needed at this point level), heralds of nurgle, or heralds of khorne.
Heralds don't really do much of anything in units of troops. You're much better off spending the points on more models for the unit. The only heralds I use are heralds of slaanesh with chariots and unholy might (pavane is nice, but not mandatory), and heralds of tzeentch with chariots and bolt (master of sorcery and legion are nice, but not mandatory). Nurglings are okay, but the points are usually better spent on units that can claim objectives.
Daemon Princes can work bare bones, but I'd at least give them ironhide. Or, for 140 points you can give them mark of tzeentch and bolt, which is dirt cheap and very effective.
Tanks for the help. I'm going to lose the beasts and heralds (except tzeentch herald as the ranged attack is nice). I'm going to remove the nurglings as well, and use those points o give iron hide to the princes.
I recently got to see the lesser demon units in action. I must say that the firepower the horrors can field is astounding and very useful against infantry. I saw the daemonettes ripping tanks apart and despite their low toughness, really being a valuable unit in the army. I can see me having more of these 2 troops. The plaguebearers, although survived very well, really struggled to kill anything (against 3 eldar jetbikes for 5 combat phases until bloodletters came and finished the bikes off). Bloodletters seem very useful against high armoured opponents, but in the game against eldar I saw, their usefulness was reduced due to low armour eldar units. How do you guys rate letters?
All in all, I think your advice is sound and I shall take it all into account as I rewrite the list and start collecting
That's a hotly debated point among daemon players. Personally, I don't like bloodletters. Despite being absolutely amazing in close combat, they just don't have a way of surviving long enough to get there. They deep strike in, and then get shot to death. I think Bloodcrushers are a lot better in every way. Many people like bloodletters, but I've just never found a way to use them effectively.
Be careful with daemonettes. They're VERY fragile, so keep them in cover.
plaguebearers aren't meant to kill anything. they claim an objective and thats it. i played a 600 pt game today where 5 plaguebearers sat on an object, went to ground, and got shot up and lived (3 died) the entire game.