1500pt CSM "Tactical Daemonic" looking for advice - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x0)

    1500pt CSM "Tactical Daemonic" looking for advice

    Okay, basically I'm planning on attending GT this year with CSM, and I drew up this list to begin with. The ultimate aim of the army is close combat, with one daemon prince kitted out for aggro and another which can do aggro, but also can annoy the opponent. The Plague Marines and the Berzerkers are in as specialist units, with the idea behind the plague marines being disembarking near some tank, popping it on the turn they can't assault, then assaulting the next turn, and the idea behind the berzerkers being just pin down and eventually destroy an important unit on the board. Then there's the obliterators which are in there to give the much needed shooting to the army, although I could play certain opponents where deepstriking some of them would be a good idea, thus the berzerkers and marines have personal icons. Finally there's the summoned greater daemon, which could appear in either of the marines or the berzerkers, and thus adds a high level of threat to both the squads. I would really appreciate help and suggestions on what to change in this army. The force is as follows

    HQ

    Daemon Prince - Mark of Tzeentch, Wings, Doombolt, Warptime

    Daemon Prince - Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Lash of Submission

    Summoned Greater Daemon

    Troops

    Plague Marines, 9 models - Champion, Meltagun x2, Personal Icon
    Carried in Rhino - Extra Armour

    Khorne Berzerkers, 10 models - Champion, Power Weapon, Personal Icon, Plasma Pistol
    Carried in Rhino - Extra Armour

    Heavy Support

    Obliterator Cult, 2 models

    Obliterator Cult, 2 models

    Obliterator Cult, 2 models

    Total of 1497 points


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member Ghost of Rage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Age
    32
    Posts
    784
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    56 (x2)

    Firstly, this post belongs in the army list section and will probably be moved by the almighty Rabbit (or possibly someone else....but probably Rabbit).

    Anyway, to the list! Your list is lacking in the troops department, which will make it very easy for your opponent to neutralise your win chances in objective games, particularily multi-objectives. Personally, I'd drop the Greater Daemon as they really aren't very good and will kill off a much needed champion. Next, drop the squad of Marines down to 7 and the Berzerkers down to 8, giving both champs a Power Fist to combat vehicles and MCs. Also, lose the Extra Armor upgrade on the Rhinos, it's not worth it as it's very easy to penetrate one of these badboys and get a better roll than 1 or 2.

    Now, I know this sounds crazy, but drop a squad of Oblits so you can add this third troops choice in there. I'm a big fan of Berzerkers and bringing the fight to your opponent, so I'd add another squad of 8 Berzerkers with Champ, Powerfist, Personal Icon and Rhino, then you can add another Oblit (yes I brought one back) and either field him alone or throw him into one of the squads. This should make your list look as follows:

    Daemon Prince w/ MoT, Doombolt, Warptime, Wings
    Daemon Prince w/ MoS, Lash, Wings

    2 squads of 8 Berzerkers w/ Skull Champ, Powerfist, Icon, Rhino
    Squad of 7 Plague Marines w/ Plague Champ, Powerfist, Icon, 2x Meltaguns, Rhino

    Squad of 2 Oblits
    Squad of 3 Oblits

    Hope this helps!
    World Eaters: W-47 D-10 L-9
    Necrons: W-19 D-3 L-2
    Protectorate of Menoth: W-36 D-0 L-7

  4. #3
    Senior Member Serbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    609
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    102 (x3)

    So your only armor at 1500 points is two rhinos, and you're summoning a greater demon into one of the most expensive troops choices we have.

    No. Just... no.

    You lack armor spam, you only put what, 30 wounds on the table? Many of whom would die quickly and easily to one or two plasma cannon(two troops) shots or melta guns?(oblits)

    You only have two squads that can capture objectives, and one lucky blast from an AP2/3 weapon can kill most of them.

    Also, running two demon princes at 1500 is too much. You don't need them and they will be less effective than another squad of troops.


    run something along these lines:
    Demon prince, wings, lash.

    Nurgle squad (7), melta x2, power fist, rhino.

    Nurgle squad (7), melta x2, power fist, rhino.

    Khorn squad (7), power fist, rhino.

    Pred with AC and LCx2, or defiler.
    Vindicator w/ demonic pos.

    And if you have extra points, hand out some havoc launchers to the nurgle-rhinos. If you have a lot of extra points, take some more long-medium range tank hunting stuff. Maybe a Karmoon special or another pred/defiler. The more armor you pack in here the better though, so I'd vote for a defiler/pred. This would put you at three scoring units and 5-6 pieces of armor with a demon prince as a support/surgical strike when he's needed. Play him conservatively. If you can use him to make your opponent go around him or move closer to your blasts, win for you.
    Nurgle, the freshmaker.



  5. #4
    Member H3ytony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    103
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    11 (x1)

    I wouldn't do away with the oblits entirely, they're quite valuable in a competitive list for their tactical flexibility...but I'm not sure if your list needs that many in favor of other choices - they do get expensive for what they are. I'd want to keep at least two of the oblits though...

    However, it does look like you're aiming for a 'chaoszilla' flavor, with two princes and a greater daemon...and some vehicles in heavy support or even a dreadnought or two complements this a bit better. Since you are aiming for an aggressive list, the dreadnought (take two close combat weapons in this case!), defiler, or vindicator options are good bets.

    Both posts preceding mine have mentioned the lack of troops for objective-based mission, to which I have to agree. You're going to want at least three squads of troops (in rhinos). Oh, and a plasma pistol on a skull champion could make you very, very sad if it overheats and he dies. Not worth the points for what it does. Go with the power fist, as suggested by Ghost of Rage.

    I agree with Serbi that extra armour on rhinos costs too much for such a cheap vehicle. The weapons options, however, are worth it if you can find the points for them. I am personally in favor of combi-meltas on the rhinos; not only does this fit your theme of close range aggression, but you're going to need any anti-tank you can get based on the armies we have been seeing lately.
    HDZ

  6. #5
    Member Demoneyeskyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    33
    Posts
    107
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    16 (x1)

    To go along with what others have said, this list seems built for annihilation games with having only 2 troop choices, but you will be boned in objective games. I don't have my BRB handy, but isn't there always guarenteed at least 3 objectives in a capture and control game? that means all your opponent has to do is take out your 2 troop squads and your only option is to go for a draw or wipe them.

    Extra armour really isn't necessary at all. save those points for other things. Also, my fluff sense doesn't like seeing 9 plague marines. Nurgle demands 7!
    2 HQ's under 2000 points is overkill, especially when you're lacking troops, and I would personally also drop one oblit squad for a defiler. its the same amount of points and you now also have a pie plate.

    I understand you wanna spec for close combat but there's a good chance you'll run into something better. You need more shooting. much more shooting.

  7. #6
    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Outer Rim
    Age
    44
    Posts
    4,209
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    399 (x8)

    I agree with the others, you do not have enough stuff to draw fire from your troops and they are easy to neuter and make it virtually impossible to win objective based missions.

    I think 3 HQ's is overkill and a lot of points, I'd consider dropping the Greaterdaemon and Tzentch DP and getyourself a third squad of troops. That should make your list a lot more effective and a fairly simple change.
    Mirage Arcana Podcast
    The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.

  8. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x0)

    Okay, thanks for all the advice guys, I've modified the list to the following, using a mixture of all your suggestions:

    HQ

    Daemon Prince - Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Lash of Submission

    Troops

    Plague Marines ( 8 ) - Champion, Power Fist, Meltagun x2, Personal Icon
    Transport: Rhino

    Khorne Berzerkers ( 8 ) - Champion, Power Fist, Personal Icon, Plasma Pistol (NOT on the champion, which was always my intention)
    Transport: Rhino - Combi-melta

    Khorne Berzerkers ( 8 ) - Champion, Power Fist, Personal Icon, Plasma Pistol (not on the champion)
    Transport: Rhino - Combi-melta

    Heavy Support

    Obliterators ( 3 )

    Predator - T-L Lascannon, S.S Lascannons

    Defiler - Havoc Launcher

    Total - 1495pts

    The Obliterators might deep strike. The combi weapons on the rhinos and the plasma pistols in the khorne squads are just to make up points really. I had thought of removing one Obliterator and dropping the plasma pistols for a dreadnought with a plasma cannon, but if people could advise if they think this is best, that would be great.

  9. #8
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    with Alice
    Age
    39
    Posts
    8,843
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    946 (x8)

    *transported via flux capacitor to the army list section*

    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    TX
    Age
    28
    Posts
    80
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    11 (x1)

    On the predator as stated, las sponsons, but an autocannon on the roof. Havoc launcher on the defiler is garbage, as you can't shoot it and the chest-cannon in the same shooting phase. I never take champions in my nurgle squads, because they're not worth the points. Neither are the plasma pistols on your berzerkers. YOu can free up some more points there.

  11. #10
    Member Demoneyeskyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Age
    33
    Posts
    107
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    16 (x1)

    you're looking much better. next I'd get rid of the havoc launcher from the defiler and go for a second close combat weapon. the defiler's still comes out at its base cost, and if they happen to destroy the battle cannon, you have a close combat MONSTER that also has fleet and daemonic possession. Drop the plasma pistols from your berzerker squads and use the points to give your rhinos dozer blades. I cannot tell you how many times I've immobilized my rhinos going into cover and rolling a 1 >.<

    by my count you should now have roughly 25 points left over (counting the 5 you already had). you can take meltabombs on all your champions and then have 10 left over that you can put whatever. you can take one extra zerker and give a squad meltabombs and you're 1 point over, or you can take an extra plague marine and be 2 points under. these last points are really filler and are up to you.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts