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I just very recently started playing 40k. Here is my first attempt at a fast attack 1,000 point army.
2x 10 Khorne Berserkers
- Possessed Rhino
- Meltabombs x5
1 Demon Prince
- Lash of Submission
5 Chaos Bikers
- Champion Biker w/ Power Weapon
- Flamers x4
since you are putting a list down, this should be in the army list section, expect rabbit to punt it there.
start with your hq, dp with wings is good
khorne berserkers are great, but for best results 8 will do the job, make one an aspiring champ, give him a power fist, not a power sword. drop melta bombs, keep the rhino, keep it cheap, drop possession, maybe if you have the points put a combi melta on it.
bikes for chaos cost too much, since you are running a lash, go with a defiler or a vindicator, both give good templates
Your Berserkers have a problem: only the Skull Champion can have meltabombs, so you can only have two; one for each unit provided you took a champ in each. Again, the Daemonic possession is unnecessary so use those points elsewhere or for a Havoc Launcher if you are so inclined. Prisoner37 is bang on about bikes and there are so many better replacements for them. Obliterators are an excellent choice as are your basic Terminators.
got a little more time now.
Why use a power fist? the reason you use a powerfist instead of melta bombs and power swords. Monstrous creatures, wraithlords, tyranids , and walkers. even against a vehicle that did not move you only get one chance to hit with a meltabomb. and you can not use a melta bomb against t6 or t8 monstrous creatures. a power sword will wound those monstrous creatures on a 6, o you have about a 17% chance to wound, but you probably have a 50% chance to hit, means you will cause about one wound with 12 attacks (you may do more, but statiscially you will do 1 wound in 12 attacks on a t6 creature , when you are S4 and have equal or lower weapon skill) on a creature with 4 or more wounds the chances are it will win since it has higher S than your T and ignores your armor, with a power fist you will still have the same miss rate, but will wound on 2's, meaning you will cause a wound on 83% of your 50% hit rate, or 1-2 wounds per 3 attacks. sure they strike slower, so sometimes, specifically when using high I troops like noise marines a power sword may be a good idea, but usually leave the power "spoons" and the melta bombs at home.
why is 8 khorne berserkers enough? there are two basic results of close combat, either side Y or Side X loses and is wiped out, or combat continues if no one loses morale. the initial logic is that you wiping out your opponent is the preferred outcome, but this is not nessicarly so during the turn you charge. if you wipe out your opponent during your turn, your close combat unit is now probably sitting in the open unengaged, and can be shot at and charged easily by your opponent, usuallly meaning you will lose your unit after it wiped out your opponent's unit, while it is an even trade, i would much rather take out 2+ units with each of mine. if you do not wipe them out, stay in combat, you do not get shot at, and while you can be charged into a multiple unit close combat, my berserkers can usually take on the CC and still win. now someone did the math, and it works out that if you have 10 berserkers, and you charge 10 tactical marines, after shooting with your bolt pistols, you will more than likely wipe them out, but if you do the same with 8 you will statistically kill just enough to stay locked in combat, and wipe them out on thier turn, leaving you the ability to move and hopefully charge another unit, without being target practice. statistics do not give you absolutes, they give results within standard deviations enough that it is good to learn them, sometimes you will defy the odds, but you will win more often betting on them.
why not fast attack? in a chaos army you have few fast attack options, raptors and bikes. a CSM bike costs 33 points, a SM bike costs 25 points, and are almost the same usage. the difference is that we have one more point of leadereship, not worth 8 points. also they can take hq that make bikes scoring units, giving them a lot more tactical flexibility. Raptors are great, and can be very useful, as an anti tank squad, or anti horde, or just a very mobile interference unit, but.. a squad in a rhino is almost as mobile(barring difficult or impassable terrain that a raptor can jump over), protects the unit inside better, and is usually full of troops, that can score, and since 2/3 of game types are objective, that need scoring units, they give you more tactical options. I love raptors, but without the ability to hold objectives, they will usually sit on the bench for one that can. Spawn are too unreliable to be of any real tactical value, unless you can make one out of an opponent, already to engage the unit if spawned in, and then you are not buying it to fill a slot.
Obliterators are great, why not always use them?i can not deny that obliterators are one of the most tactically flexible, reliable, useful and effective heavy support in any army, but they are infantry. if you are playing a foot slogging army, with no transports, i do not think you can beat oblits, they are the perfect choice. but if you are using transports you need something that will draw anti tank fire, while some people will use their anti tank units on your oblits, it is not a guarantee. you need something that is a lot scarier than that rhino loaded with berserkers, moving at full speed towards killing your opponent. A Defiler has a large blast template, that win kill most units it lands on, deny then saves, even cover saves as ordinance(unless they are in a building) and can move and fire at 72" range. it is usually scarier than your berserkers till they are in charge range. most opponents will decide to shoot the defiler till it is dead before shooting your game winning troops. the disadvantage of a defiler is that it does have relatively thin armor. A vindicator has the same blast template, but is actually even a little stronger, has less range, but has one more armor value, making it even a little more resilient, but you give up range( which can be a tactical advantage in its own right). I recommend these two armor value units because they draw the most fire, so your troops, which are chaos's real threat, get to where they need to be, they will rarely make it through a whole game, they will sometimes not even make back their points, but your troops will get to where they can win the game for you, that is their true value.
predators have good armor, long range, but can only target one unit a turn, and in the most popular anti vehicle configuration do not scare me as much as a rhino filled with berserkers. they can usually take out a vehicle, but at most will kill 1-3 infantry if you shoot at them, not nearly as scary as the 5 inch template that can wipe out whole squads and vehicles.
in a 1500 point mechanized list i do include a small unit of oblits, but only after my 2 defilers or vindicators.
good rules of thumb Always powerfists, one scoring unit(troops) per 500 points, the most popular configurations cost about 250 points for the sqaud, the champ, the powerfist and the rhino, so about 50% of your points on troops. if your walking, bring the infantry heavy, if your mechanized, bring the armor value. give your DP defensive marks, T for the extra save, N for better toughness and have fun, or your doing it wrong
Last edited by Prisoner37; January 16th, 2011 at 09:47. Reason: incomplete thought about mostrous creatures
Just have to be completely sure Prisoner37. You wrote that cover saves aren't allowed against Ordnance. Isn't it only against Ordnance Barrage weapons? I'm pretty sure.
These tips are really helpful, thanks.
Yes and the Defiler's Battlecannon can't be fired as a Barrage.