<2000 First time (wanna be) competitive 2000pt List - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
  1. #1
    Member Fayt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    29
    Posts
    136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    First time (wanna be) competitive 2000pt List

    So I’m getting my taxes back in about a week and now that I have the extra money I have decided to finally start an army. I have chosen CSM because I love their fluff, their color scheme, and they favor Close Combat.

    Before laughing at my list and calling me a total newb, this is my first attempt at a CSM list and 2k points at that. So I have no idea what to expect my opponents to field, all I can expect to see is lots of Mech.

    So here is my attempt at my 2k list.

    HQ: (310 pts)

    Daemon Prince (155)
    -Wings
    -MoS
    -LoS

    Daemon Prince (155)
    -Wings
    -MoS
    -LoS

    Elites: (350 pts)

    5x Chosen (175)
    -5x Melta Guns
    Rhino

    5x Chosen (175)
    -5x Melta Guns
    Rhino

    Troops: (856 pts)

    8x Berserkers (258 )
    1x Skull Champion w/ PF
    Rhino
    -Extra Armor

    8x Berserkers (258 )
    1x Skull Champion w/ PF
    Rhino
    -Extra Armor

    5x Plague Marines (170 )
    -2x Melta Guns
    Rhino

    5x Plague Marines (170 )
    -2x Melta Guns
    Rhino

    Heavy Support: (450 )

    2x Obliterators (150 )
    2x Obliterators (150 )
    2x Obliterators (150 )

    Total: 1966 Points

    I originally was only going to use 8 Berserkers each but had to fill points and didn’t have enough for anything major. I can honestly say I had no idea what to do with my other 2 troop choices. Plague Marines seemed to be the best option. I’m sure a group of 5 Plague Marines is NOT enough and I’m sure upgrading one of them to a champion is even worse. That why I need your help. I also think 2x2 Obliterators might not be enough either.

    As it stands in my newbie eyes, I see the Chosen’s infiltrating and popping any crazy Mech threats. Obliterators Lascannon Mech in the back. Daemon Princes Flying up and lashing units out of cover and closer to my units hoping for a Turn 2 Assault by my Berserkers. Plague Marines Rush up and Shoot and Assault anything they can. Daemon Princes Assist in the Assaulting wherever needed.

    I haven’t tested this or anything…I’m kind of just picturing all this in my head.

    Thank you for reading this. Please don’t rip my face off for being a newb, but on the other hand please be honest. I hope to start buying this army and getting ready for competitive playing.

    Thanks in Advance!

    EDIT: After reading over the list I realize some major mistakes. Berserkers with Plasma Pistols?...man im such a newb!!!

    I down graded the Berserkers to 8 a Unit, took their Plasma Pistols away. I got rid of the champions and Power Fists from the Plague Marine Units.

    In turn I added another 2 Obliterators to Heavy Support.

    I still have 34 Points remaining. I could add Extra Armor to the Chosen's Rhinos or add the champions back into the Plague Marine units.

    Any Tweeks or Sugguestions?

    Last edited by Fayt; January 27th, 2011 at 12:11.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Age
    44
    Posts
    4,967
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    951 (x8)

    HQ: Good.

    Elites: I'm not keen on them as they are a very juicy target only likely to get one shot. If they infiltrate, why take the rhinos? I would prefer some cheap termie units with combimeltas or combiplasmas to deepstrike off unit icons. They would have similar firepower for one turn buth then no enemy would have allowed the chosen a second shot. Termies are more survivable and are reasonable in combat.

    Troops: Berserkers are fine. I would replace extra armour for combimeltas on the rhinos to open up enemy transports or alow empty rhinos to go tank hunting after delivering passengers. Plage marines could do to be 6-7 strong. With all your meltas and lascannon I think the PMs can take plasma guns to help mow down elite infantry. Their FNP helps with overheats too. One PM unit can ditch their rhino as you will need a unit to hold a home objective anyway while the rest of the army advances. 2 plasmas and 7 chaps in this unit deployed near and objective but in cover will be dificult to shift.

    Heavy: With only 2-5 rhinos in your army (depending on hoew much of my advice you take) the enemy antitank fire will stop a few of the transports dead. If you took AC/2LC preds or vindicators it would take some of the antitank heat off the transports. 2 preds and a unit of 3 oblits might be a good selection. Take a unit icon or two (especially if you have termies) as you may wish to teleport the obliterators. It works well digging out tau battlesuits from jumping in & out of cover.
    Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    463
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    42 (x1)

    Since your Rhinos don't have weapons I'd give them possession...also if you wan't your chosen to infiltrate why do they have Rhinos (also I'm not sure they can take 5 meltaguns, then again a friend is borrowing my codex so I'm not entirley certain)? Six obliterators in 2k is bordering on overkill, if you're worried about not having enough troops I might drop one (maybe two). The Daemon Princes are good but again, I think one would be enough, especially since you're worried about not having enough troops (Plague Marines are only so tough).
    This is a fairly small (albeit mobile) army. You will be able to maneouver past SM and the likes but against horde armies you will suffer with no dedicated anti-infantry and against armies faster than you, Eldar and DE you might find that your Rhinos have met their match. Also your tactics rely quite heavily on the enemy being Mech. Even against the hardest Mech lists I think 6 obliterators plus 10 infiltrating meltaguns is enough. Flamers in your Plague Marines and more of them, perhaps dropping the Rhinos for more men (they can take a few turns out in the open even at minimum size). A Predator with heavy bolters or a Vindicator for short range fire support would help (mind you I have certain predjudices regarding Vindicators). Even a Defiler would help with its battle cannon (an incredibly versatile weapon).

    Sorry if I am ripping your face off...
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

  5. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    362
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    44 (x1)

    mad cat is just about right on. start with your core, at 2000 points you need your 4 troops, 8 zerkers and 7 plagues is a good number for squad size. you need at least 1 hq. and you need something that your opponent will want to shoot more than your rhinos. i do not like preds as they never seem to be as high a priority target as a defiler or a vindicator(their high str template make them a very high priority, but both have advantags and disavantages). take two high priority heavies, and then a squad of oblits.

    then see what points you have left. think about your chosen, or a karmoon special term squad. or raptors. raptors only real disadvantage in my eyes is that they are not scoring, but 2 meltas jumping around can scare a few people, or to follow karrain's advice flamers.

  6. #5
    Member Fayt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    29
    Posts
    136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    I had a feeling plague army was a bit small. So I should drop 3 oblits and get 2x vindicators or defilers? I love the looks on the vindicator but it's kinda short range is it not? Defiler can also CC of need be right?

    I'm not worried about not having scoring units I was just unsure what to use and how much to use for my other 2 troop slots.

    As far as having 2x DPs, I would like to keep both of them as having only one lash isn't much of a threat.

    For the EA on berserkers...wouldn't I want to keep that on? Help keep my rhino from being halted while trying to get to CC?

    Do vindicators and defilers really preform better than oblits? I would think oblits in cover shooting their lascannons and plasmas would be pretty scary and hard to kill.

    Thanks for all the help so far.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Karrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    463
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    42 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessLurkz View Post

    For the EA on berserkers...wouldn't I want to keep that on? Help keep my rhino from being halted while trying to get to CC?

    Do vindicators and defilers really preform better than oblits? I would think oblits in cover shooting their lascannons and plasmas would be pretty scary and hard to kill.
    Think about what a defiler could do shooting from cover. Besides, if you want lascannons from cover get some havocs, you get more shots and, with an Icon of Nurgle, will need some serious firepower to dislodge (alternatley you could experiment with Plasma/autocannons). Also, since the Vindicator is short range people will be training every melta in Segmentum Solar on it, which helps solve your berserker armour problem...people will be shooting at the Vindicator rather than your Rhinos (or be facing a Str 10 Ap 2 ordanance cannon), Also, a decent Vindicator build costs around 150, neatly replacing your 2 Olbiterators as heavy support. Olbiterators' main strength comes form their ability to deep strike then tear virtually anything apart at range, this makes them good but puts the situation of having them in cover a little out of reach unless you want to drop them into difficult terrain. If you want to really throw your opponent you could run a 15 man squad of Plagues which sit on your objective, I can't really imagine anything short of a brood of Carnifexes or a C'tan getting rid of them. Another way of thinking of the Obliterators against the Defilers/Vindicators is envisioning what they can substitute for Battle/Demolisher Cannons, that is to day, plasma cannons. If you have six obilterators you will be taking a gets hot save each turn, attrition that your obliterators cannot afford to suffer each turn with the amount of firepower I envision being hurled at them.
    However, the more I read of this the better the list gets, you have so many dangerous targets you will force the enemy to react to many threats at once.
    An alternate substitute to the chosen is a second unit of havocs with meltaguns in a Rhino. Then again, this will probably never make it into the list as you are filling up all your Heavy Support Choices even with the changes.

    Once you've finalised, please post some Battle Reps, I'm really wanting to see how this list turns out.
    Last edited by Karrain; January 28th, 2011 at 08:57.
    "Take their gold, burn their homes, kill their familes and enslave their souls. Show them no mercy...oh and could you post these letters while you're out?"
    -Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth.

  8. #7
    Member Fayt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    29
    Posts
    136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    well first off, as cool as the defiler looks...lets face it...that guy will RARELY get the chance to sit back and chill in cover...hes just too big.

    As far as the Extra Armor goes. I dont know if I can bring myself to take it off at least until I test it out.

    Now onto the Vindicator. I love the looks of it and I think its cannon is crazy amazing. I think I will take out 2 Oblits and throw one in and see out it goes.

    The Obliterators just seem so amazing. Sure they can be insta killed but I dont think I would want to Deep Strike them TBH. The chances of them not coming on till turn 5 or mishapping because I cant afford Icons. It is just too much for me. I would rather walk them on and hope to get into cover and shoot every turn till they do something about them

    Like you said they will be taking lots of heat every turn and thats ok because my berserkers will be rushing in and the DPs behind them.

    Im pretty sure I want to trade 2x Oblits for a Vindicator. I just think that would make my list even more of a "all comers list"

    One thing I wish I could find the points for is to up my Plague Marines to 7 strong rather then 5 I just cant find enough points anywhere.

    Im glad you like the list. Im very happy in how its turning out so far.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Black_rose_00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Sherbrooke, Quebec
    Age
    37
    Posts
    316
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    56 (x1)

    Vindicators and berzerkers do not mix well, berzerkers want to be close to the enemy and the vindicator wants to drop templates close to the enemy.

    3 X 2 obliterators is one of the best heavy support configurations chaos has. They can stand back and shoot lascannons or plasma cannons, deep strike close with multi-meltas or twin-linked meltaguns. Against hordes they have heavy bolters and twin-linked flamers.

    5 meltaguns on a unit of chosen is overkill. A unit of chosen with 2 melta and 2 flamers is a good unit with duality, good against mech and hordes alike but not excellent against any. Also chosen can outflank with their rhinos so they must keep them, they have a threat range of 24" from the board edge this way and an armored hull that you must kill before killing it's content. Also chosen rhinos are always a good unit to place in front of your berzerkers rhinos. They are not troops so even if they die there's no big deal, can open tanks for the second wave of berzerkers to assault it's content and give cover without needing smoke until you reach the enemy.

    Your 2 HQ are good, they will take part of the heat away from your rhinos and obliterators.

    5 Plague Marines with plasma guns is all you need to control your homebase. Put them in cover and they have T5 / 3+ save / 4+ cover (3+ with go to ground) and feel no pain. This is a unit that is really hard to shift by shooting (they are also fearless so no breaking away from shooting). Your opponent has to break through your berzerkers, deamon princes and chosen to get to them and if they did you probably lost the game anyways.

    Here is the list as I would see it without going in a completly different build.

    2 X Lash prince with wings

    3 X 5 chosen with 2 meltaguns, 2 flamers in a rhino

    2 X 8 Berzerkers, one is a skullchamp with fist (one unit has a personnal icon), in a rhino with a combi-melta
    1 X 5 Plague marines with 2 plasmaguns and a personal icon in a rhino
    1 X 6 Lesser deamons

    3 X 2 Obliterators

    The Personnal icons give you the option of deepstriking your obliterators without scatter and your lesser demons.
    The lesser demons give you a forth scoring unit that can't be shot for at least a turn, maybe more. They can assault the turn they arrive if need be, can give cover to your rhinos or your berzerkers. Never underestimate a unit of lesser demons to hold an objective, even if they only have a 5+inv save, in cover with a go to ground it's still a 3+ cover save and they are also fearless so have to shoot them to the last one to stop them from controlling an objective.
    "Iron Within, Iron Without"

  10. #9
    Member Fayt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    29
    Posts
    136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    Wow I see what you mean. That is some crazy amazing advice. I didnt even think about how by the time the Vindicator can shoot, the berserkers should be assaulting the units therefore being pointless.

    I guess 5x Meltas would kind of be pointless because only 2x can shoot out of the time at a time. Plus giving 2 of my guys flamers not only saves me a handful of points but makes the army that much more well rounded. but on the other hand I could use the 5x Meltas by coming in from the side moving 6" disembarking 2" and shooting all 5x Meltas into something.

    What did you mean by 24" threat from the table edge? Are you telling me the Chosen can come in from the side, move 12" and melta 12"? Because I thought troops inside cant shoot if the vehicle is moving at Crusing speeds?

    Wouldnt Deep striking the Obliterators hurt me? If they stayed in reserve not only do I not get to shoot those 6 lascannon/plasma cannon shots starting turn 1 but it gives my enemy less to shoot at which in turn threatens my Berzerkers a LOT.

    I like the concept of lesser daemons but I dont think they would be better than another unit of Plague Marines in a Rhino. Equiping them with Plasma Guns makes some sense but what do I have shooting my opponents mech if my Obliterators and Chosens are in reserve and no one on the field has meltas.

    Edit: What makes combi-weapons so good? you get one shot per game right? what happens if you miss? I just dont see the point in my newb eyes.

    Here is my UPDATED LIST:

    HQ: (310 pts)

    Lash Prince w/ Wings (155)

    Lash Prince w/ Wings (155)


    Elites: (310 pts)

    5x Chosen (155)
    -2x Melta Guns
    -2x Flamers
    -Rhino

    5x Chosen (155)
    -2x Melta Guns
    -2x Flamers
    -Rhino

    Troops: (930 pts)

    8x Berserkers (248 )
    -1 with Personal Icon
    -Skull Champion w/ PF
    -Rhino

    8x Berserkers (248 )
    -1 with Personal Icon
    -Skull Champion w/ PF
    -Rhino

    7x Plague Marines (231)
    -1 with Personal Icon
    -2x Plasma Guns
    -Rhino

    6x Plague Marines (203)
    -2x Plasma Guns
    -Rhino

    Heavy Support: (450 )

    2x Obliterators (150 )
    2x Obliterators (150 )
    2x Obliterators (150 )

    Total: 2000 Points


    Ok so the changes made were:

    Took off a Melta from each squad of Chosen CSM
    Changed 2 Meltas to Flamers in each squad of Chosen CSM
    Added 3 Plague Marines (2 in attacking Squad, 1 in Defending Squad)
    Added a Personal Icon in each Berzerker Squad
    Added a Personal Icon to the Attacking Squad of Plague Marines
    Decided to stay with the 2x3 Obliterators instead of adding a Vindicator


    Hows the new list?
    Last edited by Fayt; January 29th, 2011 at 07:00.

  11. #10
    Member Fayt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Age
    29
    Posts
    136
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    Ok so I just had a crazy breakthrough when I was looking at this list. So i came up with 2 options of Adjustments to this list.

    Option 1:

    Get rid of the Chosens in Rhinos
    Put in a squad of 3 Terminators with Combi-Meltas
    Put in a Squad of 5 Terminators with with Power Fists and bolters or 2x Lightning Claws although I cant find the points for the Icon of Khorne.
    Add 1 Plague Marine to the Squad of 6.
    change the Plasmas to Meltas in the Plague Marine squads.

    This leaves me with 2 points.

    Or

    Option 2:

    Get rid of the Chosen with Rhinos
    Put in 2 Squads of 3 Terminators with Combi-Meltas
    Add a Plague Marine to the squad of 6
    Change Plasmas to Meltas in the Plague Marine Squads
    Change 1 Lash DP to Warptime DP
    Add Extra Armor to both Squads of Berzerker Rhinos
    Add Combi-Meltas or Plasmas to all 4 Rhinos

    This Leaves me with 7 points.

    Which Option should I take? or better yet do you have an options? Or maybe I should just leave it as is?

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts