Hello again everyone. I posted a thread in the CSM forum a while ago about starting IW. I have now got the codex and completely read through it. I thought it wasn't a bad read actually, easier to read through than the IG codex anyway. I'll be playing a few 500 point games soonish so ive made up a quick list for you all. Feel free to tear it to shreds, but please remember it themed IW so some things i will obviuosly not be taking and vice versa. There is a reduced FOC as follows: 1 HQ and 1 Troops, 0-1 Fast Attack OR Heavy Support.
HQ
Daemon Prince: Wings 130 points
TROOPS
10 Chaos Space Marines: 2 Meltaguns, Icon of Chaos Glory Aspiring Champion Chaos Rhino: Havoc Launcher 255 points
HEAVY SUPPORT
Chaos Vindicator XXX points
Total: 500 points
I havn't played a games with CSM yet, so i may be a little off with the list (or a lot). 2 things i would absolutely love to have in there is Warptime on the DP and a PF for the AC, but i can't seem to fit them in.
Other options i have considered is taking 2 Oblits instead of the Vindicator. If this is the case, would i be better off not taking any armour at all, as a single Rhino would be a juicy target, especially for the local GK's players psyfleman dread, which he usually takes in 500 points. Any and all suggestions are welcome, i don't mind if someone is critical.
i would put your troops to 2 5 man squads as you need 2 troops choices
i would also drop the havoc launcher on the rhino, drop the melta guns for 2 flamers (1 per squad) drop the vindicator for 2 oblits that gives you 500 points
with 2 oblits you have greater range and a bigger choice on weapons and they are a smaller target than a vindicator which does attract alot of fire or if you wanted use a defiler instead of the 2 obliterators it has 3x the range of vindicator and is good in closs combat as well and has lots of free options
just my thoughts though
shange he said they are playing with a modified FoC so 1 troop choice is enough...
Well, vindis are nice and all, but obliterators are better, even if he has his psyfleman he still has to worry about the daemonprince, which is a tough nut to crack at that lvl, and yeah, fist and warptime would be awesome to try and fit in...maybe a lone oblit and some upgrades?
some people love the havoc launcher, but the argument against it. to use it you have to move less than 6", for chaos the transport should be running up the table as fast as it can, your chances of getting good use of it are slim. so dropping it would not worry me. you might find that an obliterator, a single to fit in your warptime and the power fist.
I find the havoc launcher quite good actually, I use it on my 2 squads of "can-do-everything-and-anything" CSM, they usually doesn't rush across the board, I leave that for my zerkers!
They are usually such a nice threatening unit that their rhino is prio #1 (it usually survives two turns before being blown up...)
I think the squad is 270p so you have 10 points to spare.
The DP is much more viable than the lord, especially in these smaller games i think...though i have no personal experience of them...
If you have a lord you have to have him in a squad, and then that can't be 10 models and you miss one spec wep, and the enemy have fewer targets to split fire between!
And you're right, the CSM squad is only 270 points, but i also noticed the list was 510 points with those imaginary points on the squad. I had it right in my head and added 10 points for no reason :S. True about the Chaos Lord to, i'm used to my transport's having a 12 model capacity and the DP would certainly draw more fire than a Lord. Hopefully i can playtest this soonish. Thanks again.
when i use my lord i use him with the following terminator armor, Mark of slaanesh and a deamon weapon this is 150 points and he does really well allthough when i do field him ill have some other big target on the board to take the fire away while he moves up and hes done really well the most hes killed in 1 game was 1 combat squad of 5 and 4 termiantors and 1 librarium at the same time allthough i was very lucky on +d6 for teh deamon wepaon (blissgiver) and being higher Inatiative shame he died teh next turn dam lasscanons
so some times they be good depeding on how you equip them and what you need them for
I did consider a Chaos Lord with Termie armour when deciding on my HQ, but eventually went with the DP. Maybe in higher point games with a squad of Termies to accompany him for my 2nd HQ. Although another DP does sound nice... decisions
if you have a land raider then 4 termis + termi lord is devastaing no matter what you face
and yeah another DP is nice but i find he allwyas gets everything shot at him before he gest to do anything where my lord doesn't, well he does now, now that most of the people i play against know what he has lol
Sorry to revive this thread, but its only a bit over a week old, so i thought it would be better than starting a new one. I did finally get a game in with the latest list posted here against my friend's Grey Knights. It was my first game using my CSM, so i unfortunately made some mistakes that cost me, but overall i was pleased with how the game went. Another good thing was that it was definitely more enjoyable using my CSM over my IG.
After the game i decided to alter my list slightly according to how efficient i thought each unit was. Although the DP did nothing, that was largely my fault (as well as rolling 2 2's from 2 wounds to get him killed). I was to conservative when i should have charged him straight into combat where he actually would have been safer. The unit of CSM did do its job, destorying 1 razorback with Meltas and would have done more had the rest of my army not been annihaliated. I was extremely pleased with the Oblit, even though it only fired twice for the game. One highlight of the game was when it wiped out a 5-strong unit of GK with its plasma cannon in one shot (they were clumped after disembarking).
With how the game went, i have done the following changes and would like your advice:
I decided that 2 Oblits would be so much better than one, on occasions where it will be firing a Lascannon or Multi-melta a single shot on a 3+ is just dodgy. It has meant i have had to cut some rather useful things though. First to go was the Icon, i find it largely unnecessary with Ld 10, especially considering i did not need to roll for morale in the entire game. Second was the Havoc Launcher, it is good, but a hit-or-miss choice at 500 points. I did not even fire it in the game (full-mech enemy). For the remaining 50 points i ended up dropping the Power Fist and Warptime, a hard decision.
Alternatively, i could drop the squad down to 5 guys to have the 2nd Oblit, retaining all upgrades (i would replace the 2nd Meltagun with a combi-melta). What do you guys think is the better option? Or do you think the other list is still better and it was just human error on my part. Thanks in advance.
EDIT: Also, i forgot to add that i have actually considered other options like a Dreadnought or a unit of termies. Are these competitive options at 500 points, or should i stick with the Oblits? If i take the Dreadnought it would allow me to also take Warptime and the PF, but i don't think it will as reliable as the Oblits. I'm thinking a Multi-melta on the dread would be nice. I could also return to the Vindicator, allowing me to take Warptime, but you guys weren't do fussed on the Vindi before so i am unsure.
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