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Ok, so I'm new and I know I need a lot of work on my army list so any help would be great.
I played a game a while back and feilded:
Deamon Prince: Wings, MoK 110pts
1: 12 CSM, Champion w/Power Weapon and Melta Bombs, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter, IoK: 255pts
2: 10 CSM, Champion w/Power Fist and Melta Bombs and Plasma Pistol, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter, Rhino w/Havok Launcher and Extra Armour: 300pts
3: 16 Khorne Berzerkers, Champion w/Power Weapon and Melta Bombs, 2 Plasma Pistols: 401pts
9 Possesed CSM, Champion: 244pts
I think that's the correct math, anyways I know I need heavy weapons and armour. I have some guys ordered: 2 Obliterators, Abbadon, and Huron Blackheart. Oh and I changed one of the Plasma Guns to a Meltagun. I'm getting those HQ cause I heard metals going away. So, what should I do 'bout my army list?
Last edited by smj123; May 5th, 2011 at 21:30.
Hello, welcome. I'm a bit confused about the "metals going away" bit... but after all, I love me some plastic daemon prince kit. mmmm. Great stuff.
As for your list, the Daemon Prince looks just great (but then again, we don't have many options there), same with Kharn.
Your squads, however, seem a bit mixed. The 12-strong squad looks like it is just fine for sitting and shooting, and that is great... but the 10-strong one's heavy bolter/plasma combo feels out of place. You gave them a rhino to move them, but heavy/rapidfire weapons. Maybe a nice double melta combo instead? Or a melta/flamer duo? Even 2 flamers would be fun. Also, why no icon of Khorne on these guys? Are they just going to sit in the rhino on an objective and shoot out the roof all game? Another small observation, why powerfist AND meltabombs? I mean, if you have the 5 points to spend, I suppose there are worse things you could do with it, but I'd rather take all my attacks on a powerfist than throw a single meltabomb.
As for the berzerkers, I really like them, but they probably need some rhino love... regardless, don't expect more than half of that 400-point squad to reach the enemy most games. Also, I really think they need a powerfist, but that might just be personal preference sneaking in. You might prune them down to 9, get them a ride and a fist and have kharn roll with his homies.
The forum, as a whole, tends to look down on possessed. I think they are really cool looking miniatures and I applaud you for using them. Make sure to keep them behind those rhinos, that rolling cover will help them get somewhere useful with more heads still attached to their shoulders.
Actually, that raises a point. It is kind of hard to criticize units when I don't really know what you intend to do with them. I figure the berzerkers intend to run up and punch in faces, but apart from that, I'm a bit in the dark. ^_^
My supplier told me that his supplier (a GW employee) said that they're getting rid of the metal models (which is why I'm getting Abadon and Huron).
And I probably should have said this before, but this is litterally every model I have. And when I purchased the battleforce I didn't get the upgrade sprue so I hadn't realized I'd get anything other than a heavy bolter and a plasma gun.
But ok, so should I have the other 7 berzerkers as a seperate squad? Course I could feild my obliterators instead... Since I need ranged anti-armour desperately.
And I don't know why anyone wouldn't use possessed, with a 5+ invuln and their demonic gift or whatever it's called they can be a force to be reckoned with.
About Rhinos should I just get one more? Or spring for the second?
And finally, don't worry about figuring out what I'm doing with my guys cause I'm still in the dark about that too.
Just a quick note: Your prince tallies up at 130 points ( not 110 ). Other than that, I'll echo the White Knight's advice.
Some general suggestions: Rhinos are almost a default requirement for our troop choices. Some exceptions apply; however, in your case, each squad should have one.
Troops: For basic CSM units, take them in squads of 10. Something like this:
*10x marines with glory icon
**1x champ with fist
For Berzerkers, their optimum performance is typically reached with 7-8 members. Such as:
**1x champ with fist
Possessed: They certainly do have a bad reputation, although they aren't as useless as some people think. That said, they are still not very efficient. I rarely field them. While their cost is actually undervalued for their upgrades, they simply lack versatility. This, combined with their non-scoring status, renders them nigh on obsolete for most traitors fans. After all, Berzerkers are a more competent option (plus they're a scoring unit).
Their biggest hurdle is the random chart effect. GW should have made a chart solely devoted to offensive/defensive upgrades, instead of trying to include a few movement modifiers as well. At least then, players would have some notion of what they're getting at the beginning of a game.
As for your Possessed, drop the champ. He adds nothing substantial. Instead upgrade them with either the IoS or IoK. Also, give them a rhino. They really need to get into close combat. Even if your random roll grants them Scout, the rhino pays out.
Last edited by Rabbit; May 6th, 2011 at 16:47.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Ya, apparently my basic math and reading skills fail me when it comes to this.
Should I just field all of my squads with power fists? When I have the points available of course.
Also, I don't remember seeing the option to field Icons on possessed. I'll look again though. And why aren't they scoring units?
Then, when it comes to HQ, which should I field? Huron, DP, Abbadon, or Kharn? Or at least what are the advantages/disadvantages of each? I didn't really get the chance to see what Kharn or my DP were like. I played heavy mech Eldar with that list. I only had guys left cause of some ridicoulously poor rolling.
...actually, rabbit's math fails him as well, the DP with wings and MoK tallies up to 140p
Though an unmarked DP with warptime is better than a DP with MoK atm...and Khârn is awesome!
Possessed aren't scoring since they are an elite choice, they can't hold objectives...
Yes, fists in all squads...no use putting melta bombs on a champ with a fist...skip the heavy weapons in the CSM squads, take dual meltaguns...skip the 2 last CSM in the 12-man squad and buy a rhino for them...and split the 16 zerkers into 2x8 zerker teams...and buy rhinos for them...take points from possessed if needed, they are awesome models and fluffwise, but their cost is too large for the usage you get out of them...
win some, lose some
Kharn is by a long shot our best special character. In fact, point for point, he actually produces more kills against marines than anything else in our codex. However, he's a glass hammer and can easily die to hidden enemy fists. Princes are our most competitive option, athough Kharn isn't far behind. He can deal with pretty much everything (i.e., elite infantry, swarms, power armor, vehicles, monstrous creatures). Just be mindful of his "betrayal" aspect.
Abbadon is pricey. If you campare him to Kharn, he produces about the same marine kills, but cost over 100 points more for the model. With Abby, you're paying for incredible versatility. He's good against everything and is stout enough for absorbing enemy fists and the likes. Delivering him onto the battlefield tends to be his weakness. Either you deep strike him or put him in a land raider. With deep striking, your opponent has a full round to react and move away, which can sometimes leave Abby far away from the combat. With a land raider, you're paying even more to get Abby into play. Plus, Chaos land raiders aren't amazing; they aren't horrible, they're just not competitive.
Huron isn't bad either. Like Kharn and Abbadon, he's solid against most things our opponents can throw at us. However, when compard to Kharn, he simply falls short.
As Arjuna said, an unmarked Prince with Warp Time and Wings is one of our best configurations. If you were not playing a Khorne army, I'd further recommend you upgrade this Prince with the MoT. Alternate configurations include our Lash of Submission variant (prince: wings, IoS, lash)
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I might just give him the MoT, wings, warptime, cause i found him getting shot with a lot of heavy weps and losing his armour save, even though this isn't exactly a "fictorically" accurate army then. Oh well, I was planning on expanding eventually
Also, what should I do about my WYSIWYG problem? I have 3 fists... Also, Lesser Demons? A) are there any differences between the types? and are they worth using?
there is no functional difference with lesser deamons, you can use any daemon models and will have the stats of lesser daemons from our codex, not of the appropriate type from the chaos deamons codex. personally for the cost i prefer a CSM, but they can be useful.
everything else seems to have been said.
if you still have the possessed on sprues, they make really good parts to add to your CSM, by putting swapping out legs, arms and , torsos you can give yourself 20 more marines that show a little mutation, instead of 5 possessed with a lot of mutation and 15 CSM with very little variation.
About WYSIWYG, 3 fists seems a bit low, try and trade stuff with your fellow gamers at your local place, I trade all the time with other people, stuff I don't use for stuff they don't use...works like a charm! If you have old terminator-fists they work as well(the older metal ones aren't as big as the new termie ones)...
As for if something is worth using, bring it in your army, play with it for a bit and see how you like it. There are a few units to shy away from, but we all have our own little "style" in how we play and what we bring...
win some, lose some