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Thread: Spawndom!

  1. #1
    Shoop Da WAAAGH! Mr Twingy's Avatar
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    Spawndom!

    Hey all


    I have been playing around with army lists lately and i came up with this rather nifty 1500 point army list...

    HQ
    Chaos Sorcerer 130pts
    Gift of Chaos

    TROOPS
    Chaos Space Marines 85pts
    5 models
    Meltagun

    Chaos Space Marines 85pts
    5 models
    Meltagun

    FAST ATTACK
    Chaos Spawn 1200pts
    30 models <--
    Wait... what?

    I know what your thinking, surely this is madness! Chaos IS madness! DEAL WITH IT.

    But Seriously, stop and think about it for a moment. 30 strength 5, toughness 5 models with D6 attacks each, 3 wounds, fleet and a charge range of 12", that sounds pretty nifty doesnt it? I know i know... they dont have a armour save and they can only move D6 inches a turn... but when you have a potential charge range of 18" why would you care? Oh and did i forget to mention the possible six extra spawn for only 30pts? Most losses i take i can simply re-spawn (heh heh, geddit?) using GoT from my sorcerer when i get close enough.

    If you ask me, this army would be pretty effective, i have talked to many people that say that this kind of list WILL NEVER WORK and that it would CONSTANTLY FAIL AT LIFE, THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING FOR ALL THE TIME FOREVER. But i say... HELL, WHY NOT?

    You have some anti tank and some anti infantry ranged weaponry, oh and a great psychological weapon in the form of 30 indescribable horrors from beyond the void that gribble you so hard your guts expel themselves from you're body in a surprisingly gory fashion.

    Bear in mind i only play for fun, although sometimes that can involve entering tournaments with bizarre army lists that make my opponents and the judges go, "Wait... what?", "Lol u serious?" or my personal favorite "HOLY MONKEY TURD ON A STICK".

    Please LO, persuade me into not doing this army, i REALLY want to do it at the moment...

    Cheers all!

    Mr T

    P.S. Sorry about the almost constant use of bold text and caps lock, i know it can really push some of your buttons...

    Sometimes the best defense is a good offense... Wait, what?

    THE GAME

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  3. #2
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    *moved to army list section*
    Spambot kill tally. . .337

  4. #3
    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    As a fun list, i like it very much. Might be a bit of a handful for some opponents, but remember that your spawn will be in units of 3 models each, and you have no control over their movement (Mindless: Always move to closest enemy and try to engage.) This may not be so much fun for you as you think.

    Might want a few upgrades on the CSM units e.g. Rhino, although i do appreciate you want to keep the non-Spawn points down

    Negatives:
    Lack of player involvement: Army is mostly "Unleash the Hounds!" and then spectate for next hour.
    Tactical opponents will split up the horde and deal with it on their own terms, instead of yours.
    Against any smurf army they will spend the game engaged to a dreadnought with no hope of penetration.
    Mission control: You are almost certain to loase any Annihilation game due to easy kills and small unit size (3 spawns per unit), whereas you also have minimal ability to take and hold Objectves in other missions.

    Positives:
    It is one hell of a cool modelling project, and would be a highly characterful army on the tabletop.
    Unusual build would throw most opponents' tactics out of the window.
    Infinite up-scaling! (Can play at any points level.)
    The look on the opponent's face as you field the army!!
    The tales of woe if they fail to beat you!!!
    There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.

  5. #4
    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    Replying in a seperate post with some non-fluffy stuff:

    Your biggest assets will be, target saturation, and the potential to tie up shooters in CC from an early stage.

    Not sure if you realise, but S&P also affects Assault moves, therefore Spawn will charge at double the highest of 2 dice. This will average out a lot due to the high number of units involved, and will result in most units charging ~8" (some higher, some lower) after about 4-5" in Movement phase and 3-4" running. This gives a reasonably reliable total Assault reach of around 16".

    S&P also has a more devastating side-effect on your combat ability : You will fight last in every combat unless the target is already engaged. Even assuming all models are still alive when you attack:

    10*3 Spawn
    Each unit (120pts) gets
    - 3D6+3 attacks on charge
    ~ 14 attacks, 7 hits, 5 wounds/unit.

    Total ~50 wounds.


    ----
    There is also an interesting rules question relating to having so many mindless units:
    Q: Suppose you have 5 units whose closest enemy is a 5-man Tac squad. Once the first 2-3 units have assaulted and placed in base contact, there is likely to be no space for the remaining 2-3 units to engage this Tac squad. Would these units simply mill around the combat waiting for a gap to appear, or would they attack the nearest availble enemy instead?
    A: Even as a CSM player, i'd say the rule is they just have to get as close to this enemy as possible.
    This gives you a Logistics problem which (after deployment) you have no control over, and means that there may/should always be some units out of combat which can be shot to pieces by the enemy army, whilst also not contributing to the attack.

    All-in-all, I just can't see it working effectively unless you spread them out on deployment to ensure they do not bunch up and block each other in this way.

    -----
    PS:
    As an alternative monster-horde army, how about using many Lesser Daemon units instead of the Spawn?

    Consider similar points of each:
    30 Spawn - 1200pts vs 90 LDs - 1170pts (using the extra 30 points to equip your CSM with some icons.)
    Both are likely to get the charge -- spawns due to their speed, LDs due to being able to assault on the turn they arrive from the warp.
    Both have 90 Wounds.

    T5 Spawn vs T4/5++ Daemon -- both take S3/4/5/6 wounds at the same rate. At higher Str, Daemons are more survivable due to the Toughness difference becoming irrelevant. Daemons also do not lose "extra" Wounds to Instant Death from S10 e.g Vindi plates or the aforementioned Dreadnoughts.

    I've shown above that the spawn spam can potentially average 50 wounds in their opening assault.
    90 Lesser Daemons would average ~68 Wounds on the charge.

    These are all on the table from Turn 1, but of course won't all engage at the same time due to random speed. Depending on how you split the Daemons, their output will also be spread across several turns. For sanity's sake, I've just counted the damage they can each do in the first combat round, regardless of whether this takes place simultaneously or not.

    Direct comparison 10 units, same as spawns:
    10*9 LDs
    Each unit (117 points)
    27 attacks on charge
    13.5 hits, 6.75 wounds/unit

    ----
    Less units, more focussed atttacks (and less annihilation points)
    6*15 Lesser Daemons (90@13)
    Each unit (195 points)
    45 attacks, 22.5 hits, 11.25 wounds/unit

    ----
    Shame really, cos i do like the whole shambling horde idea... What we really need are some proper Beasts instead of Mindless S&P ones :p
    There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.

  6. #5
    Shoop Da WAAAGH! Mr Twingy's Avatar
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    thank you for the very insightful comments! They have been a lot of help.

    I like to run through the different parts of posts... Its what i do.

    Thank you Rabbit for moving the thread, i didn't realize there was an army list section

    Dont worry, i am totally aware that they will be in units of 3, i am also aware of the whole Mindless predicament

    The Negatives
    Thats fine, that will make every game different and unique and that is what i like.
    I dont mind the outcome of the game, whether its my total annihilation or i manage to scrape a win i will be happy with it.
    At Least the dreadnought wont be able to shoot me!
    Objectives? Chaos gods care not for objectives!

    The Positives
    All these outrank the negatives over 9000 to 1 (See what i did there?)

    ---

    Thank you for pointing out that S&P rule with assaulting, i didn't realize that it also affected assault (i have never fielded a S&P unit in my whole 8 years of table top gaming, how weird is that?!) But average assault range is fine by me.

    Also Damn! That is strange that you always strike last in combat when S&P. I would of thought that spawn would strike at initiative due to their bestial nature... Also the fact they have enough gribbly appendages that they are bound to hit something before everyone else...

    ---

    That is an interesting point you raise about the mindless rule. I am sure in most friendly games the opponent would allow me to assault other units if there were 9+ spawn in combat with one unit.

    As far as deployment goes it will be to spread them out across the board in a wave of gribbles with the CSM squads and sorcerer behind it.

    ---

    I do like the sound of your alternative SLD list. Although the problem is i feel most of the army will not be able to arrive on the board after the 2 five man squads get the full force of a couple rounds of shooting from a 1500pts army. The sorcerer may survive for longer but i will have to give him a personal icon as well.

    Although then again, i suppose if i replace the sorcerer with a chaos lord instead, give him a personal icon and POSSIBLY a power weapon. Give the two squads both a icon to chaos glory, and keep the whole lot away the enemies TLOS, and spawn the daemons from there, that could work nicely. Although i can see that going to pot quite fast if i come across a all reserve army.

    TBH i prefer the spawn army, its got that WTF factor that the daemon list just hasnt got. Its a good alternative list though and i can see it working nicely.

    Cheers for your input, and if you or anyone else has a opinion of this list, feel free to leave a comment!


    Mr T
    Sometimes the best defense is a good offense... Wait, what?

    THE GAME

  7. #6
    Senior Member Moschaboy's Avatar
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    i played a lot of khorne with the last edition of the chaos space marine codex and have to say that it was basically watching your models do stuff and rolling dice. They had a similar rule to spawn, which made them run to the nearest enemy. As i first read the codex it looked great because it made them faster, but i learned quickly that the game is not so funny if you can't do anything actively.



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