<2000 1850 CSM Heavy list - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    1850 CSM Heavy list

    After a few games (5 now) finding myself seriously outgunned I wanted to try something different. I think my plan is legal, but I am still learning some of the finer point of the rules, so correct me if I am wrong. This is also in hopes of providing pure target saturation for my opponent.

    HQ
    Daemon Prince - MoK, Wings - 140

    Elites

    8x Chosen - 5x PG, AC, 3x MB, Rhino w/Combi-Flamer - 289

    5x Chosen - 5x Melta, AC, 3x MB, Rhino w/Combi-Flamer - 210

    Troops
    5x PM - PC, PF, 2x PG, Rhino - 205

    10x CSM - AC, PF, 2x Melta, Rhino - 245

    10x CSM - AC, PF, 2x Melta, Rhino - 245

    7x Berzerkers - SC, PF, Rhino w/ Combi-Melta - 232

    Heavy Support

    2x Oblits - 150

    Pred - Lascannon Spon - 130


    Tactics
    With the Chosen I bring quite a bit of versatility by either outflanking, infiltrating, or deploying normal. Infiltrating will force the opponent to deal with the situation, hopefully soaking up a lot of fire with cover saves. Out flanking is risky, they may come in on different turns/sides of the board, to late, and probably all around reduce their effectiveness. Deploying normal will give them a good chance of surviving, but doubt they will earn their points back, but all are still viable options I think. Anyway, I will start with my general idea-

    Chosen infiltrate close by, hopefully forming a solid firing line where the meltas pop tanks/transports and the PG's take out what comes out. Oblits and Pred assist with popping armor.

    Here is where I may run into rules issues as I cannot find anything that states I have to indicate a unit is embarked (common thing is place the leader on top in my game store), and the way I read infiltrate states I can still bring my Rhinos, just have to deploy the troops unembarked and rhinos back at the line.

    Line up all rhinos in deployment, no indications of whose embarked (smart person will still be able to tell where my chosen and KB's are with WSYWIG) and hopefully draw fire off important transports or have wasted shots on empty transports. It seems fairly underhanded, but honestly, would you really be able to look at a tank and say "They have X men with X weapons inside." Pretty much proceed like normal from there rushing rhinos forward. Kill points games might be harsh, but I think overall it should be up for some fun games.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Arjuna's Avatar
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    I would say to skip one of the chosen squads.

    You need points for grabbing an extra Daemon Prince(they work best in pairs), and some more heavy choices. You need to be able to take out tanks and transports at range, and two oblits and a pred isn't enough.

    MoK is the worst mark you can give the prince. It only gives him one attack more and stops him from grabbing psychic powers. Warptime is much much better than MoK, and you can grab MoN or MoT if you want for extra durability. If you take MoT you can also grab an extra power.
    win some, lose some

  4. #3
    Member JKoby123's Avatar
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    First, Arjuna is dead on. Saved me the typing.

    Second, about the rules: You are required to tell your opponent what you have embarked in transport and what you have in reserve. Also, for reserves, you have to tell your opponent how each unit will be arriving. Now, it depends on your LGS, but at mine, it's pretty much the standard to keep all of your reserves and embarked troops in a location visible to both player during the game. So, he's gonna know if you have things embarked. The idea is sneaky, but I do believe that you have to tell your opponent what is riding in what, usually before deployment.

    Also, as an option, you may want to drop the fists from the CSM squads, and reduce their numbers by one in favor of another Obliterator; at the very least. You're not fielding many models at all at the 1850 mark. I don't know that you'll be outgunned with this list, but you'll almost certainly be outnumbered. I'm a serious believer in "Quality-Over-Quantity", but you may doubt that the first time you play IG. Haha. Anyway, go look through some other 1850 lists on this forum and see if you can make anything with what you have that you'll like.

  5. #4
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    Rules - I figured that was the case, doubted people would indicate if they didn't have to. I do know, even if I infiltrate at least these rhinos can be used as back up transports or screens.

    Adjusted list now as follows

    HQ
    Kharn - XXX

    Elites

    5x Chosen - AC, 5x Melta, 1x MB, Rhino - 200

    6x Chosen - AC, 5x PG, 1x MB, Rhino - 233

    Dred - ML, TLLC - 125

    Troops

    7x KB - Rhino, SC, PF - 222

    5xPM- PC, PF, 2x PG - 205

    10x CSM - AC, MB, 2x Melta, Rhino - 220

    10x CSM- AC, MB, 2x Melta, Rhino - 220

    H/S
    Pred - LC Spon - 130

    Pred - LC Spon - 130

    I really dont like oblits, they always just end up being a way over priced las cannon (if they even live). This should shove enough high priority targets out there, with plenty of shots. The infiltrating chosen will draw a lot of fire early on, this should leave quite a bit else open to wreck the field. Will have to be careful of LoS with the dred.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Arjuna's Avatar
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    If you aren't giving a fist to your champs, an icon of chaos glory would be better in the CSM squads, and having a TLLC on the dread is a gamble with high stakes!

    And regarding oblits, Yes, they tend to use the lascannon the first and maybe second turn in my armies, but after that they are usually close enough to start using the MM or TLMG. But their real worth come from having plasma cannons/TL plasma guns as well as tank popping stuff! Marines/termies out in the open, pew pew, hot plasma on their heads!
    win some, lose some

  7. #6
    Member JKoby123's Avatar
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    Yep. Once again, agreed with Arjuna. But hey, you like what you like. And Kharn is a solid choice.
    However, running Kharn AND the TLLC Dred is borderline masochistic.
    Not saying that's not playable, just that you may be rolling and praying for ones more than you will like to be.

    Do you have something against Deamon Princes with Warptime? One of those monsters instead of Kharn would seem to round off the list a little better, in my book.

    Personally, I'd drop the TLLC off the dred. You have to Preds that can do that job. Give him a DCCW instead.
    Also, the Chosen look much better to me than before. I'd probably drop the Melta Bombs off everything, though, to free up some points for those fists back.
    IoCG is a solid option if you want to forsake the fists altogether.

    Overall though, it's looking much better.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Black_rose_00's Avatar
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    For units of chosen, 3 meltaguns per unit is enaugh, the extra bodies are bullet catchers that didn't cost you to much. With plasmaguns it's the same thing but I would drop them completly, plasma stuns tanks, melta destroys tanks. Against troops, lets say marines, 5 plasma guns will kill roughly 1.3 marines per turn with cover at long range and you are paying 165 points for that, is it really worth it?

    Chaos dreads are crazy, if you want to give your dread a lascannon for too much points that can fire frenzy on your army make sure either 1) you have nothing of your's in front of you or 2) something disposable like lesser demons to shoot at. You can get lascannons for cheaper and more reliable elsewhere (hi heavy support). A dread with 1 close combat weapon and a missile launcher is your best bet, you have range, krak and frag so when you frenzy you're not blowing up your tanks and you also pack a dread ccw to help against tough units or tie up shooting units.

    Drop the aspiring champion everywhere unless you want to give him a powerfist, meltabombs do nothing and you're paying a premium for the aspiring champion might as well give him something usefull. If you want the leadership boost Ld9 with re-roll is better then Ld10 so invest in Icons of Chaos Glory instead of aspiring champions, it also costs less.

    Heavy support looks good, a defiler would be a good candidate in this kind of list since you allready have plenty of tanks on the table. Tank saturation is a good way to win in 40k 5edition.

    Hope this helps.
    "Iron Within, Iron Without"

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    Few more tweaks...

    HQ
    Daemon Prince - MoN, Wings, WT - 175

    Elites

    5x Chosen - 3x Melta, 1x Flamer, IoCG, Rhino - 170

    6x Chosen - 3x Melta, 1 Flamer, IoCG, Rhino - 188

    Troops
    7x Berzerkers - Rhino, SC, PF - 222

    5x PM - Rhino, PC, PF, 2x PG - 205

    10x CSM - AC, PF, 2x Melta, Rhino - 245

    10x CSM - AC, PF, 2x Flamer, Rhino - 235

    H/S
    Pred - Las Spon - 130

    Pred - Las Spon - 130

    Defiler - DCCW - 150

    This gives a bit more variation in the CSM, extra flamers will help flush guys out of cover. Defiler will help template while it can and fleet into combat when it cant.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Black_rose_00's Avatar
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    You don't need a plague champion with a powerfist in a 5 man unit. He's going to die to fast to be worth 40 points more then a normal plague. Also with plasma guns might as well keep the plague marines in the back to hold an objective so the fist will not be really usefull. For the defiler I always leave the reaper autocannon on him so when the battle cannon gets destroyed you still have something to shoot. Also a reaper autocannon is really good to take out land speeders/raiders/trucks. Your list is coming out good.

    Here are the final tweaks I would do.
    Drop the plague champion and fist, 1 chosen from the unit with 6, the IoCG on the chosen = +78 points to play with
    Change the flamers to meltaguns on the CSM
    Add a berzerker
    Add combi-flamers to the CSM AC
    Combi-melta to the berzerker rhino
    Combi-bolter to both chosen and plague marine rhinos
    "Iron Within, Iron Without"

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