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19 Lesser Daemons
Predator with LC sponsons, Havoc, and fixin's
5 Havocs, 4 Missile Launchers, 1 Rhino
3 Obliterators (As a group? Singly? Please post)
8 Raptors, IoK, 2x Flamers, champ w/Fist
Another batch of CSMs, like Troops 1 & 2
Needs More Terminators!
2x Dreads w/Plasma, H. Flamer, Extra Armour
Nurgle Prince w/wings, warptime
Other (please describe in a post)
DISREGARD THIS LIST; NEW LIST AT http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1877292 (1,500 Points; What Should I add to my Army List?)
Okay, so I'm making a slightly competitive, mostly fun Black Legion list. Thanks to many--including the folks on my other thread--I've gotten closer to what I want. However, I still have a few points left; 259, to be precise.
So--if you would--please take a look at my list below and tell me what would cap off my army the best, in your opinion (and why, if you're willing).
HQ: Chaos Lord with Terminator kit, MoT, combi-weapon, and daemon weapon (deathscreamer) - 165
Elite: 4x Terminators, 3x combi-weapons, Reaper, IoT - 195
Troop 1: 10x CSM, IoS, 2x meltaguns, Champ, power weapon, melta bombs, rhino, dozer blade, extra armour, havoc launcher - 225
Troop 2: 10x CSM, IoS, 2x meltaguns, Champ, power weapon, melta bombs, rhino, dozer blade, extra armour, havoc launcher - 225
Troop 3: 7x Plague Marines, personal icon, 2x plasma guns, rhino, dozer blade, daemonic possession, combi-weapon - 266
Heavy Support: Chaos Vindicator, dirge caster, havoc launcher, daemonic possession - 165
Current Total: 1,241
The basic plan so far is to use the PMs as a strongpoint while the CSMs advance to contest points and/or butcher infantry. The Lord and Termies will drop in on top of the most forward group, and will use their dakka and meaty 2/4 saves to harass the enemy. The Vindicator's primary job is to draw fire for the others, though if it gets to use either gun, so much the better.
Last edited by Tyjec'Amun; November 22nd, 2011 at 17:32. Reason: Typos.
A couple suggestions:
Termis: When deepstriking, the Reaper isn't that effective. It's main advantage is its ranged, which won't be useful on a deepstriking squad. Save the points, and swap it for a heavy flamer and chain fist. This will give the squad the ability to manage both swarms and walkers. Also, it's difficult to justify the IoT on a 4-man squad. Point for point, you will probably get as much staying power by dropping it in favor of another termi (additional models add staying power).
Slaaneshi Troops: While the IoS has good synergy with a basic power weapon, at the same time, you have plenty of wounds protecting your champ. In other words, you shouldn't be worried about the champ getting his attacks before he succumbs to death. He'd be far better off with a fist, which will help against vehicles and monstrous creatures.
Plague Marines: Need a champ with fist. You've already invested a significant amount of points in this squad, so why not tool them up to where they are a close combat threat as well? After all, more often than not, they will find themselves in close combat.
Vindi: Drop the havoc launcher. A vehicle cannot fire both an ordinance and another weapon at the same time (save for the Russ, which has a special rule). It's best not to invest in conditional upgrades. Of course, I'd drop the Vindi altogether for a Defiler, since it is capable of supporting your spearhead and generally has more staying power than a Vindi.
As far as the poll goes, I recommend a basic prince with wings and warp time, along with a dread- either missile launcher or dread. I think this provides the optimum level of threats for your build.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Rabbit has a lot of good points in his post that you might want to consider. I voted for "Other" in the poll, I would say to grab a Land Raider with Daemonic Possession. It gives you an additional vehicle on the table as well as it gives you a great delivery system for your terminators.
Something just dawned on me. At the start of the game, you currently only have 4 visible models on the table (3x rhinos, 1x vindi). Of course, you plan on adding more models. Even so, one of the main hurdles with having non-prince hqs is their lack of initial presence on the board. This means your other units are more likely to get targeted (obviously). Just something to bear in mind.
Also, you don't have any consistent long range tank-busting. This isn't necessarily a problem for Chaos, but it does tend to be an issue for builds that aren't heavily geared for close combat. By this, I mean fielding a ridiculous number of melee threats (princes, dreads, defilers). Highly mobile armies will be an issue for you, since you can't really touch them until they come within melta threat.
In case you're interested, I field the following at the 1500 point mark:
3x plague squads
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Good point on the Icon vs. extra guy thing, though.
Last edited by Tyjec'Amun; November 18th, 2011 at 17:51. Reason: Can't count. :P
Side: I'm really not trying to harp on any point here. I play for fun now, and just enjoy a good discussion with fellow members.
On Plague Marines: Aside from this thread, I'm really surprised how our community has shifted significantly to using our Plaguers as 100% ranged support. They truly are a renaissance unit, meant to fill multiple roles. Their cost seems prohibitive for keeping them back at range, when they are equally durable when dealing with threats in close combat. Actually, I find close combat to be their bread-n-butter, since it removes the chance of them being targeted by other squads.
On Defilers: Their added height can sometimes pose an issue when trying to hide them, although I rarely try and duck for cover with Defilers. Of course, it depends on your terrain setup. We use all kinds. If you plan on rushing them forward, firing the battle cannon along the way, then you can usually find a way to bestow cover from at least some of your opponents' tank busting squads. Plus, Defilers are excellent at shrugging off S8 hits, which means we should really only worry about las cannons and the likes.
Comparing the Defiler to the Vindi, I find the Vindi chalked full of problems. Not only is it easily thwarted with a "weapon destroyed" or an "immobilized" hit, but it also can have problems seeing over friendly vehicles; whereas the Defiler has LoS superiority. If you're not careful, you can block the Vindi's view by a misplaced rhino, which never happens to Defilers. Furthermore, the relative short range of the Vindi means it has to get somewhat close to the enemy, thus exposing its fragile sides.
The Landraider isn't a bad idea. Just bear in mind that it doesn't offer any tangible protection for your rhinos when it comes to target priority. A veteran player will still go after your rhinos, since they're easier to penetrate; not to mention, the Landraider will seldom be targeted by S8 and weaker shots , so it's not much help in soaking up rounds that might otherwise go against your rhinos.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Also, if I do go Defiler, what loadout do you recommend? Like the VIn, I'd want to to advance and harass the foe, to draw fire.
Last edited by Tyjec'Amun; November 18th, 2011 at 19:00. Reason: Added Defiler question.
Keep the Defiler cheap. It already comes with Possession, so the only thing left is to swap out its two secondary ranged weapons for 2x additional close combat weapons. Then, your set.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I prefer keeping the reaper, I get weapon destroyed on it way too much...and combined with immobilized, which I also get often, the reaper is good...
win some, lose some
So here's the new pitch, largely incorporating Rabbit's suggestions. Everyone, please tell me what you think!
HQ: Chaos Lord with Terminator kit, MoT, and daemon weapon (deathscreamer) - 160
Elite: 4x Terminators, 2x combi-weapons, Heavy Flamer, Chainfist - 150
Troop 1: 10x CSM, IoS, 2x meltaguns, Champ, power fist, rhino, dozer blade, daemonic possession, havoc launcher - 305
Troop 2: 10x CSM, IoS, 2x meltaguns, Champ, power fist, rhino, dozer blade, daemonic possession, havoc launcher - 305
Troop 3: 7x Plague Marines, personal icon, Champ, power fist, 2x meltaguns, rhino, dozer blade, daemonic possession, havoc launcher - 301
Heavy Support 1: Chaos Predator, heavy bolter sponsons, havoc launcher - 115
Heavy Support 2: Defiler w/2 extra DCCW - 150
Current Total: 1,496
As you can see, I've re-tooled the Terimes for more of an assault role. I was hoping to add more of them, but throwing fists and a Plague Champ into my squads ate a pile of points. I suppose I didn't need to upgrade the Rhinos, but I love the thought of a little nigh-unstoppable murder-bus spewing missiles everywhere. The Defiler is straight out of Rabbit's suggestions. As for the Predator Destructor, well... I still only had five models on the board, and no matter how scared they may be of a Defiler, my foe's going to have some spare guns. I figure the Pred can draw some fire as well, and hopefully add a little more dakka to the mix.
As always, any thought/advice/comments are welcome!
Last edited by Tyjec'Amun; November 22nd, 2011 at 18:40. Reason: Tweaks