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Basically after playing Space Marine with a friend of mine for the past few days, we've decided to forgoe a Lord of the Rings SBG in lieu of a more traditional 40k game, naturally using Space Marines on both sides thanks to the past few days gaming ;D
Anyway, It's been an on-again off again desire of mine to do a small chaos army so I've used the opportunity to create a small force of Chaos Marines (made an army list, going to see if I like the way they play first) to playtest them! I've gone for an all infantry army as I just like the idea of them doing that weird teleporting thing that they do on Space Marine, even if that isn't replicable in the game itself, but I have tried to compensate with more anti-tank. (You might as well let me know if all infantry is a stupid play-style while you're at it...)
Without further rambling the list:
Sorcerer - Termie Armour, Doombolt, Personal Icon - 130
4 Termies - Champion, Lightning Claw pairs, Icon of Chaos Glory - 180
5 Chaos Marines - Icon of Chaos Glory, Plasma Gun - 100
5 Chaos Marines - Icon of Chaos Glory, Plasma Gun - 100
5 Havocs - 4 Autocannons, Icon of Chaos Glory - 165*
1 Obliterator - 75
*Unsure of whether to give 'em heavy bolters instead for more shots, but decided to go for autocannons for the best of both the volume of fire and
high strength shot worlds
Well what do we think? How does it look as an all-comers list?
The Terminators and Sorcerer are my close combat unit, originally that sorcerer had been a chaos lord with a pair of lightning claws, but I swapped him out due to the extra points that I had and through a desire to give the termies some shooty potential. I had also considered a Demon Prince, just for giggles, so you may as well say which option you think would be best for the HQ.
The Tactical Marines (I'm a longer time Marine player than Chaos, so if I call CSMs Tactical marines, just accept my use of both terms... it's something I'll just keep slipping up on anway ), although small, are there to shoot pretty much at any enemy they fancy, attacking at first the tougher stuff with the plasma, then just concentrating on weaker units. I was also planning on shooting both squads at the same thing, to maximise damage, and if needs be (i'm hoping it doesn't come to it) to act as a CC support to the termies with their Bolt Pistol & CCW (an area where they exceed the loyalist tactical squads.)
The Havocs are there to do a bit of both between anti-Infantry and anti-tank, their initial targets will be light vehicles, but after that, they'll move onto heavier infantry and then lighter infantry.
The Obliterator is pretty obvious, I'll use him to take out enemy tanks. After that I'll use his less tank orientated heavy weapons to kill the nastiest/toughest enemy troops. Since he's on his own, he'll require some protection, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue, as I'm not going to let him stray too far from the other marines.
Lastly, all the Chaos glory icons are there to keep an already extremely high morale army going come what may. I'm trying to avoid going for any devoted troops in this army, as I wanted to get an overall feel of how a chaos army operates... I'm just funny in that I won't mix and match particular marks, either all/some are devoted to one god, or none are devoted to one god.
EDIT: Quick change of plan, I now know roughly what my friend is fielding:-
20 D Avengers (presumably in 2 units of 10 )
5 Dark Reapers.
Thoughts? That list does look daunting...
Last edited by Blackadder; February 14th, 2012 at 23:01.
Well as a long time Chaos player I have to say that I like your fresh outlook on the ol'CSM. If you are looking for a fun list I think you are heading in the right direction, but if you want something more competitive you will need some major changes (like not running a footlist). I have run CSM footlists before but not like this one. Personally in my footlist I like running 1 unit of 16 Khorne Berzerkers with a Fist Champ and a Lash Sorc. as my main unit. Then I will back them up with a unit of Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters and 2 squads of Havocs, 1 with 4 autocannons and the other with 4 missile Launchers, but that list is around 1000 points.
What is your main objective here? Fun/fluff or Competitive
If you want to "warp in" like in the game I would suggest running some Summoned Daemons and if you run terminators run 3-man squads with combi-weapons and deepstrike in. If you want an all walking army you might look at chaos dreads and defilers for support. I like the Autocannon Havocs, but against your friend you will want to go with missiles as you will be able to take out his Wraith Lord a lot easier with missiles. As far as your HQ goes, you need Lash of Submission to bring your opponent closer to your lines and if you bunch them up the Oblit can make good use of his Plasma Cannon.
Optional: Swap out a claw on each termi for a combi-plasma. It will yield more kills unless your termis are in a prolonged melee skirmish. Also, the plasma will come in handy against vehicles, as well as hitting prior to your assault phase. Just a thought.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Thanks for the comments guys.
As it happens I cracked and made a different list before my friend came round the other day - funilly enough I originally wanted to go with a mark but eventually gave up on that due to the cost, the resulting army looking quite similar to the one you see up there haha.
If I remember of the top off my head (I think I've deleted said list now) it had:
Lord with Termi armour and dual claws
3 termies with dual claws
2x 10 CSMs, with Plasma and autocannon
5 Havocs with 4 autocannons
Summoned Greater Demon
Also if I remember correctly from the general flow of the battle, the havocs were killed turn 1 by the Reapers... pissed me off really, as I never got to see how good they were, next turn 5 more CSM died due to the reapers, all while this was happening my friend's 10 Avengers went to occupy the central building of the battlefield, while the other 10 waited outside on the other side away from my troops. The 10 DA in the building promptly got stormed by the termies and lord, and died, they then stormed the Avengers outside the building and killed them all.
I somehow managed to draw the avatar away from the termies due to the building (MCtures can't enter buildings surely?) so instead it went for my Marines around the back of the building, who then summoned the Greater Demon and settled down to watch - long story short the Demon almost had the avatar, although due to crap rolls on my part and good rolls on my friend he was defeated after about 3 turns, if I remember rightly he took 2 wounds off the avatar.
While that was going on I charged the termies into the reapers, killing them. After that it's a bit fuzzy, but with 3 termies left (I lost one to the reapers I think) and about 8 marines against an avatar and a wraithlord suffice to say I lost/gave up.
Anyway what do we think of that second list I mentioned? Was it better than the first? I also had the option to get a Demon Prince in place of the Lord, should I have gone with that?
Lastly, I'm quite interested in what Col. Dracus said about a "warp in" list... do you think an army like that would be viable? Not necessarily at the tourney level, but just for general gaming against friends or randoms in a GW? It does sound quite fun What units would you reccomend past termies and summoned lesser demons? Also, how do you summon lesser demons, same way as Greater Demon?
With the "Warp in" style I have had some luck with it at tournaments but nothing major, and it was only a small element to the army. You can use it effectively in a balanced list though. What I had done is taken 3-4 units of 5 Lesser Daemons to make them more consistent with their arrival. The lesser daemons are summoned off your squad and personal icons and can assault the turn they come in.
This can help with a protracted combat that you need some extra help with by having your newly summoned daemons join the fray, but one why I like to use them is as a buffer unit. If I know that I am going to be assaulted next turn by something I need a little more distance from, I will drop the Daemons between my unit and the threat and Run them in the shooting phase to spread them out. Then move my more valuable units away and let the Daemons soak up the charge and die. This will leave the threat unit exposed for another turn of shooting and buy me more time to get a better unit over to deal with them. The Lesser Daemons can also hold objectives, so summoning them in to sit on an objective is a cheap way to hold an objective while your marines keep moving, or if your tied up in combat the daemons can run to a near by objective.
As far as different units that can "warp in" you are pretty much limited to Terminators, Summoned Greater & Lesser Daemons. Raptors and winged D.Princes/lords can deep strike also and Chosen can infiltrate/outflank. Some easy ways of getting Daemons in your opponents face (if that's what you want) is to take Bikers with an Icon and turbo boost turn 1. Now you have a T4(5) unit with a 3+ armor and 3+ cover saves that can summon lesser daemons and the champ can turn into the SGD if you wanted. Or you can outflank some chosen in a rhino to do the same thing.