[500] Chaos - Thousand Sons - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    [500] Chaos - Thousand Sons

    I've been working on Thousand Sons for a good while now, painting wise. I'm just about to peak over to the 500 point mark in a few weeks perhaps. I've played several proxy games against Daemonhunters, which has lead led to a deep and bitter hatred of the Grey Knights. But since the whole Chaos Forum has gone Tzneetch crazy. I figure I'd throw in my two cents.
    My opponent always uses an inquisitor squad with at least one plasmacannon and a psycannon. Hence the double rhinos. Anyway here it is, 500 points, using the double rhino idea. I have won with this one once or twice. I've only played about three full blown Thousand Sons proxy games with the DH.

    List One

    Thousand Sons x 7
    Champion - Powerfist, Combi-Bolter, Frag Grenades
    Rhino Transport

    Thousand Sons x 7
    Champion - Powerfist, Combi-Bolter, Frag Grenades
    Rhino Transport

    500 points


    Ok here is a couple of lists from me playing around with my rather limited options.

    List Two

    Chaos Lieutenant
    MoT, Power Weapon, Kai Gun, Frag Grenades

    Thousand Sons x 9
    Champ - Powerfist, Wind of Chaos

    Pack of Horrors
    3 x Flamers, 5 x Horrors

    501 points



    List Three


    5 x Screamers

    5 x Screamers

    3 x Horrors + 3 x Flamers

    Thousand Sons x 9
    Champ - Power Weapon, Meltabombs

    501 points


    List Four

    (The plan with this one, was to summon the daemons first then have them follow behing the rhino, and then cover the sons while they unload)

    6 x Screamers

    6 x Screamers

    Thousand Sons x 9
    Champ - Powerfist, Kai Gun, Bionics?
    Rhino Transport

    (math could be wrong here, wrote it down badly on the sheet of paper)

    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

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  3. #2
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    You NEED an HQ choice and two troops choices, you don't have an HQ in lists 1,3,4. You would be screwed against very CC guys (like tyranids) or very shooty IG or SM. Oh yeah, screamers suck, most troops can tear them apart...

    Screamers assault, fall back Your Turn
    Enemy shoots screamers Their Turn
    Enemy assaults screamers Their Turn

    Ig will just shoot your rhinos then pick of your TS, and Tyranids or orcs will just tear you apart once they get close since they can get so many more attacks in CC than you, even if they only have one wound or bad saves. Or, if your opponent was like SM or chaos undivided you could be very screwed. The pick of rhinos/TS with hvy bolter or lascannon or autocannon fire or whatever then they have CC guys too.

  4. #3
    Pure Venom. Lordofchange's Avatar
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    Some of the lists are pretty nice, but ideally you shouldn't include rhinos. They're too many points for a game of this size. If you're playing the extended patrol rules, which i assume you are, it's probably the best idea to have just two tooled-up squads of sons with a champion with power fist or power weapon. You'd be surprised how long an enemy army will take to rip that up. Try these:

    9 Thousand sons, aspiring champion, doombolt, power weapon
    9 Thousand sons, aspiring champion, bolt of change, power weapon, daemonic visage
    499

    The power weapons will help you in combat. The doombolt squad should be lined up in front as it's shorter range and less valuable than the bolt of change squad. The bolt of change targets enemy transports or armoured vehicles, and the doombolt squad cuts through enemy squads. If you can slow down an enemy army then they're dead already - nothing gets through that storm of boltgun fire.
    And you needn't worry about tyranids. Hormagaunts bounce off power armour, you'd be surprised. Genestealers can be shot to bits by boltguns and doombolt, as can warriors.
    The fact is, you needn't worry about whether your enemy has more close combat ability or bigger guns than you - concentrate on your shooting strengths and you'll be fine.
    Leave the bolt pistols on aspiring champions, they need the attacks - give them powers instead, like in the above list. remove the rhinos, they're useless-stay as far as you can away from the enemy.
    Someone335, no offence, but you appear to say that thousand sons could never win because the enemy has more guns or close combat ability. From my experiences, this isn't true. In small games, thousand sons excel because they are highly resilient. And in a shootout, thousand sons WILL win.
    So concentrate on your strengths, shooting and psychic powers, and you'll win.
    The only difference between tattooed people and non-tattooed people is that tattooed people are awesome and can kick your ass.
    "War does not determine who is right - only who is left."

    RAMROD ONE

  5. #4
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    Ok, so what would you think about this little variant?

    Thousand Sons x 9
    Champ - Powerfist, Tzneetch Minor Psychic Power

    Thousand Sons x 9
    Champ - Powerfist, Bolt of Change

    502 points (I think)

    Anyway, its not too different, but I usually end up duking it out with Grey Knights since they have even more firepower than I do. So I added some powerfists, I will tyr yours as well though. I just get sick of the articifcer armor crap, Bolt of Change, isn't as useful on Grey Knights, nor Wind of Chaos for that matter.
    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

  6. #5
    Pure Venom. Lordofchange's Avatar
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    I like that variant a lot actually. I'd get rid of the Tzeentch power (theres only one good one and it's unlikely you'll roll it) and replace it with a general power from chapter approved, some of those are reeeaaaal nasty. Also, you may want to take gift of chaos or wind against grey knights instead of bolt of change, because that'll give you enough leeway to make that minor power into a wind or gift. Against grey knights, with a chaos army though, I'd suggest maxing out on firepower, rather than psychic powers. Go back to the kai gun on one champion, and have gift or wind on another. Unfortunately it's really only luck that'll save you from grey knights, as they're made to kill chaos, but try my list and your variant if you want, i mean, i've beaten grey knights with thousand sons before - it's tough, but it's possible!
    The only difference between tattooed people and non-tattooed people is that tattooed people are awesome and can kick your ass.
    "War does not determine who is right - only who is left."

    RAMROD ONE

  7. #6
    Senior Member Centum's Avatar
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    you NEED an HQ in order to play. NEED, not if you want to, you NEED an HQ.

    -Centum

    PS: Tzeentch/Thousand Son armies are almost impossible to use and win with in a 500pt game, they are just too expensive. You need at least 750 pts.
    You Can't Stop the Eighp

    Had Tzeentch before I knew how to play :P

  8. #7
    One Awesome Dude hotspike18's Avatar
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    Centum, o ye of little faith. :rolleyes: I'll let those blasphemous words slip.

    I don't need an HQ since we are using the combat patrol(?) rules, just playing them at 500 points. Your only requirement for unit selection is one troops unit.

    Beating Grey Knights isn't impossible. The only thing I worry about it getting the inquisitor taken care of, multi-meltas and plasma cannons are not Tzneetch friendly. In combat, (as long as I have my champion) I can beat Grey Knights with the same numbers as me. I usually only lose one model per round. The champion usually kills twice that alone, so overall, I think we might have a slight advantage.

    Anyone know where I can get the Chapter Approved? I've only ever seen the 2004 online. I'm assuming its in that one? or 2003? For some reason, the download for 2004 didn't work. I have no idea why.
    "If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."

  9. #8
    Pure Venom. Lordofchange's Avatar
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    I don't know about blasphemous words, centum, I'm sure I would have used a much harsher description for what he was saying..
    Centum, you do not NEED an HQ in order to play in this situation, as has already been stated. We are talking about using the extended patrol rules. Which does not require an HQ. Go to the rulebook and read the extended patrol rules. And please, don't be so condescending next time unless you know the rule. We do know the basic need an HQ in most circumstances rules, we aren't stupid.
    Secondly, the statement that thousand sons are impossible to win with in 500 points -untrue. It's clear you have little experience with Tzeentch, If you make this statement. That's not intended as an insult, I was a raw Tzeentch noob for a very long time before i got to grips with them. Thousand sons can quite easily win, in 400 points, never mind 500. Try a squad of 5 and a squad of 7, or a squad of nine and some horrors, or two small squads and some screamers. You have the most resilient army with the best armour. It's practically guaranteed that you'll win in 400 points due to the fact that the enemy weapons can only chip tiny pieces off of you. I have only ever lost twice with thousand sons in 400 points.
    Not trying to start a flame war, but this is twice that you've tried to tell others, once about monstrous creatures and CCWs and now about HQ choices in extended patrol, about things that are not true. Thousand sons are a very hard army to get to grips with. Play a few 1000 point games and get a sound grip of new tactics. Hold back on the big games until you know the ultimate tactics for thousand sons, as they are incredible to play once you've got a grip on them.
    ANYWAY, in my experience, plasma cannons arent too bad. Deploy your men in "frag formation" - in a big long horizontal line with maximum distance between them (2"), and with the new blast template rules, he has to put the hole of the template over one model. Which effectively means he can only hit one model, usually. I'd agree with you going for multi-meltas, they're death for thousand sons. If he takes an inquisitor though, I'd just advise staying as far away from him as you can unless he has a retinue with lots of nasty anti-psyker weapons or multi-meltas. Concentrate on the grey knights. In combat though, you really have the upper hand - even against a squad of grey knights, lets say ten of them, you'll be holding them up with your bulk of wounds for a good three turns, and with gift of chaos factored in, you may even spawn one, increasing your squad size and giving you an advantage!
    The best thing you can do is just walk forward and fire and then start walking backwards when they get close. Sure they've got storm bolters, but you are the thousand sons!!! You are the greatest chaos legion and the servants of the false emperor will fall at your feet!!! Muhahahahaha....*cough*
    Last edited by Lordofchange; June 14th, 2005 at 19:10.
    The only difference between tattooed people and non-tattooed people is that tattooed people are awesome and can kick your ass.
    "War does not determine who is right - only who is left."

    RAMROD ONE

  10. #9
    Senior Member Centum's Avatar
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    lol, my bad. I didnt mean it to be yelling, more so that you would notice. I know sometimes people look over posts. And I was wondering why you wouldnt know that in the first place, since I knew that you a lot of great advise. Sorry if it seemed cruel or "Blasphemus" as you put it. lol.

    It is all in good fun, I just want to help when I can :p

    -Centum

    Oh, and by the way, it is a very nice list for what you are doing lol. I might just put one squad with Gift of Chaos, it owns.
    You Can't Stop the Eighp

    Had Tzeentch before I knew how to play :P

  11. #10
    Pure Venom. Lordofchange's Avatar
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    Oh and one thing - a Tzeentch aspiring champion with a dark blade is so horrifically powerful in 400. No one suspects him till it's too late and then...splat. I use them an awful lot now, they're so great at their job.
    The only difference between tattooed people and non-tattooed people is that tattooed people are awesome and can kick your ass.
    "War does not determine who is right - only who is left."

    RAMROD ONE

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