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Ugluk-Bludeth and his insufferable Ork Waagh! led by none other than that overambitious and supremely underacheiving 'Lord of the Fungus' :p Gazkhull Thraka; has had the audacity to challenge my Undivided Daemon Prince 'Shiva' and his army of 'Blood Guard' to a 3600 point Uber-game!
His army is currently being disseminated, dismantled, dissected and re-evaluated over at the Ork army list section if you want to see what he will be fielding. Go easy on him, though, he's not a noob, but he still makes noob mistakes just like I do.
So; like him; I am presenting 'Shiva and the Blood Guard' 3600 point list for evaluation.
I'm going by memory so please feel free to rip into it if you see any mistakes or glaringly egregious holes in it.
Shiva: Daemon Prince w/ flight, stature, essence, strength, darkblade, ccw, personal icon and furious charge and undivided mark
Lt Bone: w/ essence, strength, power weapon, plasma pistol, personal icon, and mark of khorne
Sonic Bikers 'Power Chord': (8 ) all w/ sonic blasters 1 aspiring champ w/ power weapon all w/ slaanesh mark
Sonic Marines 'G String': (10) 9 w/ sonic blaster 1 w/ blastmaster all w/ slaanesh mark
Obliterators 'Happy Little Bunny Petters': (3)
Raptors 'The Flaming Angels': (9) 5 w/ bp ccw 3 w/ flamers 1 aspiring champ w/ twin lightning claws, strength, and personal icon all w/ furious charge and undivided mark
Furies 'The Fast and the Furious' : (10)
Bloodletter 'Ginzu': (10)
Blood Guard 'Highstrike' : (10) chaos marines 8 w/ bolter 1 w/ heavy bolter 1 w/plasma gun, undivided mark
Blood Guard 'Longbow': (10) chaos marines 8 w/ bolter 1 w/ heavy bolter 1 w/plasma gun, undivided mark
Blood Guard 'Left Hand of Shiva': (10) chaos marines 9 w/ bp and ccw 1 aspiring champ w/ strength, power weapon, plasma pistol all w/ furious charge and undivided mark mounted in a:
Rhino 'The Magic Bus': w/ havoc launcher and extra armor
Blood Guard 'Right Hand of Shiva': (10) chaos marines 9 w/ bp and ccw 1 aspiring champ w/ power fist, plasma pistol all w/ furious charge and undivided mark mounted in a :
Rhino 'Wannabe Bolo': w/ havoc launcher and extra armor
Blood Guard 'Pyro': (10) chaos marines 8 w/ bp and ccw 2 w/ flamers all w/ undivided mark
Blood Guard Havocs 'Get Some': (8 ) chaos marines 4 w/ bolters 3 w/ rocket launchers 1 w/ autocannon all w/ tank hunters and undivided mark
Dreadnought 'The Joker's Wild': w/ plasma cannon, mutated hull and extra armor
Defiler 'The Breath of Shiva': w/ battle cannon, reaper autocannon, heavy flamer, mutated hull
I think that about covers it.
114 models 3600 points
Any and all comments and help welcome and appreciated.
Last edited by Joker; August 18th, 2005 at 16:25.
Only have one thing to ask you Joker: Are you allowed to field multiple mark armies not led by the despoiler?
Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
"The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
Member of the Fluff Masters Clan
Yes. Apparently.Originally Posted by darkreever
I asked the same question in the chaos army section to be absolutley sure. here's the link
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ad.php?t=44380 (Is my army builder right about this?)
I was troubled by the whole 'ancient enemies' section in the chaos marine codex. But from the responses I got here, as long as I field an 'Undivided' general that rule doesn't apply.
If you find anyone that disagree's I will gladly adjust my army list, (since we know that LO isn't considered 'official' also)
According to the codex, the pertinent line is -There, with that out of the way, let's move on to the list.Originally Posted by The CodexYou're paying 23 points for +1 strength and +1 attack, and the chance to wound yourself upon killing something. Thinks that's a wise investment? It may very well be. Doesn't seem his list has a whole lot of invulnerable saves, so the DreadAxe is out. Perhaps the DreadBlade is the best choice - but do you really need 8 strength? You think 6 might do you well enough as is? How many boyz do you think he has that have toughness 5+? Otherwise I think the prince is solid.Originally Posted by JokerFeel No Pain would go a long ways in keeping this guy around longer.Originally Posted by JokerBeautiful group - perfect.Originally Posted by JokerAgain, beautiful group. <3 Noise Marines. Considered infiltrate to get them a good deployment spot?Originally Posted by JokerHard to go wrong here.Originally Posted by JokerNice, strong unit. I feel you might've gone a bit overboard on the champ, but that's opinion.Originally Posted by JokerNice.Originally Posted by JokerAgain, nice. See below though - I think it would be wise to replace these with a Heavy Bolter Havoc Squad.Originally Posted by JokerThese two look good.Originally Posted by JokerDo you need the plasma pistol? If you're a CC unit, how often are you going to be firing it, and what happens if you roll a "Gets Hot" and kill him off? I know, unlikely - but that's alot of points handed to your opponent if it should happen. The Havoc Launcher is a good addittion, especially against Orks.Originally Posted by JokerSee above.Originally Posted by JokerNice unit here.Originally Posted by JokerWhy the autocannon? Seems like an odd duck. I'd consider dropping the Mark all together and getting infiltrate. How often do you expect this group to be rerolling morale checks?Originally Posted by JokerI assume you ran out of points for Daemonic Possession? It'll go a long ways to keeping it survivable.Originally Posted by JokerNo indirect fire might be a good idea. It seems those Orks will be able to close mighty fast with you, and there's not going to be many places to hide.Originally Posted by Joker
Some generic things - you have very little in the ways of infiltration, which I believe will go a very long ways to helping you win. Being able to out deploy that giant army of his is a huge benefit. It'll allow you to pick the choicest targets for picking off. Granted, it's doubtful you'll get in 12" to him, but that's not necessary. It's about deploying your units after he does.
Secondly, you could really do with a group of Havocs with four Heavy Bolters. Where you'll find the points, I'm not sure. Perhaps dropping the Bloodletters? They seem overkill, and I'm inclined to believe the Havoc with Heavy Bolters will earn their keep quicker than the Bloodletters. Finding the FO slot for them is another challenge - I'd drop the Dread before anything else.
I'll take another look a bit later, if I think of more ideas.
Lots of great advice here, thanks.Originally Posted by Caluin
The Prince has the Darkblade to boost him to strength 8 because the nobs have 2 wounds each. I felt it was more important to autokill them with with my high initiative attacks otherwise I would need a powerfist and that slows me too much. You did bring to my attention that he is vulnerable to autokilling by Gazkull or any normal warboss w/powerklaw so I must reconfigure him with D. rune or avoid fighting the HQ's in hth.
I am still very skeptical about taking the dread vs a 4 heavy bolter havoc squad and you pointing out just makes me realize it all the more. So he will be gone in the rewrite when I get home tonight, 12 strength 5 shots at range are just too compelling.
The khorne Lt does need some work also, and I favored speed as an upgrade, but your fnp is a better choice for survivability.
The autocannon in the current havoc squad was just a choice between what model was available..I had a lascannon and an autocannon left. ^_^ The auto was cheaper.
I wondered at the value of those plasma pistols, and your right, they are too risky, they are gone in the rewrite.
I don't use infiltrate against Orks especially in huge games like this because I want to maintain as much distance between us as possible to allow for as many rounds of pure shooting at him as I can get! Any unit that gets infiltrated closer gets consummed in a tide of green! :p
Orks will outfight me in hth so I have to manuever him right where I want him and then strike hard. It doesn't always work out, but damn is it fun! :rolleyes:
You gave some great advice and helped fill some holes, thanks a bunch. You have probably earned the wrath of Ugluk-Bludeth by doing so. hehehe!
Last edited by Joker; August 18th, 2005 at 19:55.
That makes perfect sense, and clears up for my why to have the DarkBlade. From his list, all I can see that you need to worry about Instakill from is the normal Warboss and the Dread. The Rune may be unnessecary if you can avoid those two units. But better safe than sorry, too.Originally Posted by JokerWhile I'd say to take a speed upgrade, I highly doubt you're going to be out of combat for more than a turn or two. The Orks are going to be charging you quickly as possible, so you shouldn't have a problem with speed.Originally Posted by JokerIt's not about setting up closer to them - it's about setting up AFTER them. I don't recommend it for every unit, but the most important ones - like the Raptors and the Havocs. This'll allow you to set them up so they can choose the choice targets - like his HQ.Originally Posted by JokerGlad to be of help.Originally Posted by Joker
That's almost too clever to be legal! :lol:Originally Posted by Caluin
Thanks for pointing that out! :cool:
Originally Posted by Joker
heh, someone has to point out the obvious to your weakling Choas heart of goo.
i look forward to the dinner my orks will have on your beasties!
btw: tonight i will be updating my ork list, it has changed, dramatically and any of you Chaos players want to jump over and tell me whats best to kill Jokers army, please feel free to do so, and oh, dont worry, your already Traitors so it doesnt look bad on you at all :p
wWWwwAaaaAAgggGGGhHHHhhh!!!! = DeAth
That's pretty funny, Ug!
I'll get the rewrite to you tonight or tommorrow. See the advantage of using LO to help bounce army list idea's off the experts?
Unfortunately for you, you will still have to face me alone! :p
i have updated my list in the orkarmy list section:
any and all are welcomed to come and critize and comment!
especially you choas players who know orks a little bit!
wWWwwAaaaAAgggGGGhHHHhhh!!!! = DeAth