1500 Emperor's Children - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Swarm Queen of LO grimmtu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ich gehe jetzt.
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    131 (x4)

    1500 Emperor's Children

    1500 point Emperor's Children

    HQ

    Chaos Lord - 216 pts

    Mark of Slaanesh
    Terminator Armor
    Dark Blade
    Close Combat Weapon
    Doom Siren
    Spiky Bits
    Combat Drugs
    Furious Charge
    Daemonic Strength
    Daemonic Mutation
    Daemonic Resilience

    Keeper of Secrets - 160 pts

    Wind of Chaos

    Troops

    6 Noise Marines 238

    Mark of Slaanesh
    Furious Charge
    Frag Grenades
    2 Meltaguns
    Champion (Doom Siren, Power Weapon, Combat Drugs, Master Crafted, Spiky Bits, Daemonic strength, Daemonic Mutation)

    6 Noise Marines (same as above) 238

    2 Rhino Transports 118 pts

    Extra Armor
    Smoke Launchers
    Searchlights


    6 Noise Marines 172 pts

    Mark of Slaanesh
    5 Sonic Blasters
    1 Blast Master
    Inflitrate
    Teleport Homer

    6 Noise Marines (same as above) 172 pts


    Defiler 184 pts

    Mutated Hull
    Smoke Launchers
    Searchlight


    Is it refreshing to see an EC army without Daemonettes?

    Thanks in advance for the helpful input I know you guys will offer.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member Bigshindig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    273
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    2 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by grimmtu
    1500 point Emperor's Children

    HQ

    Chaos Lord - 216 pts

    Mark of Slaanesh
    Terminator Armor
    Dark Blade
    Close Combat Weapon
    Doom Siren
    Spiky Bits
    Combat Drugs
    Furious Charge
    Daemonic Strength
    Daemonic Mutation
    Daemonic Resilience

    Holy Crap! dude your lord costs 216 freaking points! a few more points and you've got a land raider. cut it down a bit. this isn't fantasy. I suggest cutting down on the daemonic gifts. furious charge isn't going to help you much, once you get over 8 its only good against vehicles.

    Keeper of Secrets - 160 pts

    Wind of Chaos

    On top of the lord, you've also got yet another HQ. I personally would'nt take a second HQ ever.

    Troops

    6 Noise Marines 238

    Mark of Slaanesh
    Furious Charge
    Frag Grenades
    2 Meltaguns
    Champion (Doom Siren, Power Weapon, Combat Drugs, Master Crafted, Spiky Bits, Daemonic strength, Daemonic Mutation)

    6 Noise Marines (same as above) 238

    2 Rhino Transports 118 pts

    Extra Armor
    Smoke Launchers
    Searchlights

    Wow! your champions have more stuff on them than most peoples lords, i'd drop everything on the champs, except power weapon, D. strength, doom siren.
    6 Noise Marines 172 pts

    Mark of Slaanesh
    5 Sonic Blasters
    1 Blast Master
    Inflitrate
    Teleport Homer

    6 Noise Marines (same as above) 172 pts

    this looks ok

    Defiler 184 pts

    Mutated Hull
    Smoke Launchers
    Searchlight

    Looks like your list is lacking in the area of ranged support, I'd suggest preds, they've always come through for me.

    Is it refreshing to see an EC army without Daemonettes?

    No not really, I find that daemonettes are great cc squads, and give EC more of an edge in cc. I find that a healthy mix of daemonettes and noise marines are the best choice.

    Thanks in advance for the helpful input I know you guys will offer.
    Do you realize that you have 29 models in a 1500pt list? I've seen 1500pt marine lists that outnumber you 3 to 1! I would seriously try and fit more squads in there, If you find yourself lacking in numbers I would consider forgettnig about the sacred # and going for #s in some squads. the benefits to the sacred numbers are minimal anyways.
    Last edited by Bigshindig; August 27th, 2005 at 02:38.
    "That is the sound of inevitability"

  4. #3
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    I've been trying for a bit now to find a way to break this to you easily. I don't know if I can - but I'll try.

    Quote Originally Posted by grimmtu
    HQ
    Okay, the Lord is pretty good, but very overpriced. He'll wreck just about anything in CC, but it's doubtful he'll earn his keep VP wise. I personally feel you blew far, far too many points on him, but that's me.

    As for the Keeper of Secrets, you've already got a CC monster in your lord. Him plus the KoS is 25% of your army, in two models! You don't need that!

    Quote Originally Posted by grimmtu
    Troops
    The first two Noise Marines are... well... unbalanced. You've got almost a full 100 points worth of upgrades dropped on a 1 wound model! And no Sonic Blasters? Sacrilegious! What kind of Emperor's Children general are you?

    The second two units of Noise Marines are solid. Great units. Get more of them! That's what a good EC unit looks like! Well, I also prefer the AC to have a Power Weapon + Strength, but that's just me.

    Which one of the Champions is the Daemonhost?

    The Defiler is... a... well... a Defiler. He's going to draw alot of fire, so the Mutated Hull is good. Brave move not taking indirect fire. I prefer Dreads myself, but Defilers are okay too.

    Okay, you have an extremely unbalanced list. You have a quarter of your army invested into two models. A good benchmark is to have the HQ 10% of your list size. You are way too top heavy.

    Second, those Aspiring Champs have to go. They're far too vulnerable to stand spending 100 points a pop on. Efficency is key.

    For some suggesstions, drop the Champs. Leave them with a Power Weapon and Daemonic Strength. Drop the Keeper of Secrets, and try to cut back a little bit on the Lord. With the spare points, try to fit in two more of the more balanced EC squads, and see if you can fit in a Havoc squad with Tank Hunters and four Blastmasters. They will seriously put the hurt on your enemy, no matter what that enemy may be.


  5. #4
    Senior Member Arizzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Aalborg
    Age
    43
    Posts
    389
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    48 (x1)

    Ok, you have already gotten some solid advice, so if I repeat something I am sorry.


    6 Noise Marines 238

    Mark of Slaanesh
    Furious Charge
    Frag Grenades
    2 Meltaguns
    Champion (Doom Siren, Power Weapon, Combat Drugs, Master Crafted, Spiky Bits, Daemonic strength, Daemonic Mutation)

    6 Noise Marines (same as above) 238

    2 Rhino Transports 118 pts

    Extra Armor
    Smoke Launchers
    Searchlights
    It has been said, but I think it needs to be said again. Drop some of the many goodies the champ has. I usually go with a rather simple setup of either mutation + powerfist or daemonic strength + power weapon.

    If you drop siren, drugs and master crafted from those two champs you have saved 90 points. Just enough for a favored group of daemonettes. That will give you a healthy boost to your model count and make your army pack more punch in hth.

    The favored number of slaanesh is really low for cc squads, so I have found it very handy to have a squad of daemonettes ready to be summoned where they are needed the most.

    6 Noise Marines 172 pts

    Mark of Slaanesh
    5 Sonic Blasters
    1 Blast Master
    Inflitrate
    Teleport Homer

    6 Noise Marines (same as above) 172 pts
    Perfect. Might as well get the free champ. He has an extra attack


    Defiler 184 pts

    Mutated Hull
    Smoke Launchers
    Searchlight
    Love the defiler. Though I generally use indirect fire. Not as much to hide the beast (can be difficult depending on the terrain you use), but to be able to hit those squads that try to hide out of sight.

    Is it refreshing to see an EC army without Daemonettes?
    Yes, actually. Daemonettes are generally considered to be a bargain, so everybody and his little brother uses them. And for good reason I hasten to add. The favored squad of daemonettes I mentioned above only cost you 90 points. I cannot remember a battle where 6 daemonettes who get an impressive 18 attacks on the charge (meaning something like 3 rending attacks) failed to make their points back.

    Those three rending attacks are enough to take down a wraithlord! Enough said.

    Thanks in advance for the helpful input I know you guys will offer.
    You are welcome, my friend.

  6. #5
    Swarm Queen of LO grimmtu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ich gehe jetzt.
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    131 (x4)

    I think I should explain it a bit more. Yeah, I know the chaos lord in expensive, yeah, I know daemonettes are great, and I know that a defiler sitting out in the open is target practice for lascannons and I know 29 models isn't much. But it doesn't take numbers alone to win a battle.

    Firstly, I've used this lord for a while now, and he's worth every point. Today I ran a test run of this army (basically this army, any ways) against a Death Guard army. The Chaos lord scornfully tossed aside squad of terminators ('bout 350 points), a predator (around 200) and a handful of plaguebearers, and survived the battle with two wounds remaining. That's close to 600 points he killed (because so many people use the rather silly "can he earn back his points" method). This isn't unusual for him. He's something of a trump card, capable of taking down anything I throw him at, consistently. And with deep strike and teleport homers, he's not going to wind out in the open where he can get shot to pieces by lascannons, he doesn't have daemonic stature, so he's easier to hide and since he usually kills everything in base contact with him, hidden power fists are pretty easy to neutralize.

    Neutralizing hidden power fists is made even easier with the Defiler. People see the battle cannon and decide to spread their troops out to lessen the effect of the ordance weapon, making it easy for my lord to attack the squad on the side furthest from the champion and wipe that half out, then, next round when he goes first again, he'll take out the other half. This also happens consistently.

    The basic strategy is to inflitrate the Firing Squads, as I call them, 24" away from my opponent's line, preferably in cover, set the Defiler up in plain view (but in some cover too). Set the rhinos up as close to my enemy as I can. When the game begins, the firing squads and defiler unleash everything they have, but mainly draw my opponent's fire away from the rhinos. The rhinos close in and the assault squads, well, assault and a few turns later, the chaos lord and keeper of secrets are out killing everything in their path.

    Basically, a chaos lord/greater daemon bomb.

    Against melee armies, like Tyranids or Khorne, I can sit back and let my defiler and blast masters whittle down the opponent's numbers before I have to enter melee, where I can hold my own.

    The reason for no Daemonettes is that Daemonettes are unreliable. They come in when they feel like it, they scatter all over the place, have 3 Toughness and a useless 5+ Invulnerable save. With their initial charge (assuming they weren't shot to pieces), they get 18 attacks, true, but only get the automatic wound with no armor save on a 6, which, with some luck, will come up twice in 18 attacks, with WS 4 they'll get about 9 hits and 4 or 5 wounds against marines. With the automatic kills, that'll be like... 3 dead marines. Big deal. They're dead when the marines strike back. Killing a wraithlord is no big deal, either of my assault squads, my keeper or my chaos lord should have no problem doing the same thing. Daemons in general are too unreliable.

    I think the only way to really use them is in groups of 12. That's expensive and they're still cannon fodder, but there's enough of them that they actually might cause some respectable damage. If I played bigger games, I'd probably use them in groups of 12 (like an 1850 game), but for 1500 I want something that can strike fast and hard and catch my opponent off guard. It's risky to use so few models without a lot of heavy support, but it works consistently and is never an easy fight.

    So far I've only really had problems with Tau, but that's probably because the guy I play has a very lethal Tau army. If he used a bunch of hammerheads and kroots like a lot of the Tau players I see, it'd be a piece of cake.

    Finally, if I put daemonic chains on one of the champions, it'll be obvious where the Keeper is. I like to surprise my opponent.

    Does that maybe justify a few of the more expensive units?

  7. #6
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    Everything that people have listed here are merely opinions and suggestions, and it's up to you whether you wish to listen to them or not. After all, it is your army. Nobody has a right to tell you how to play it.

    Also, I for one appreciate you coming back and explaining why you have chosen the options that you have - it makes it a bit easier to offer ideas if you know the play style of the army general.

    But I have to wonder - if you aren't open to even a single suggestion that was given to you, why did you bother to post your list for critique?


  8. #7
    Swarm Queen of LO grimmtu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ich gehe jetzt.
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    131 (x4)

    Well, I'm sorry if I upset anybody with my response.

    Any ways, I have considered some of the suggestions offered, and have come up with a few ways of alterning the army design without significantly changing it's dynamic.

    1) Take out the keeper of secrets and master crafted from the aspiring champions to add a 3rd shooting squad or maybe a second defiler.

    2) Take out the assault squads altogether and add 24 daemonettes and a havoc squad with 4 blastmasters and tank hunters.

    3) some combination of the above 2.

    4) Take out the rhinos, change "Furious Charge" on the assault squads to "Inflitrate", take combat drugs and master crafted off the aspiring champions and add a 3rd shooting squad.

    What do you think?

  9. #8
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by grimmtu
    Well, I'm sorry if I upset anybody with my response.
    I don't think anyone was upset by your response. I was genuinely curious as to your motives behind posting the army list.

    Quote Originally Posted by grimmtu
    Any ways, I have considered some of the suggestions offered, and have come up with a few ways of alterning the army design without significantly changing it's dynamic.

    3) some combination of the above 2.

    What do you think?
    That one. As you've said, you don't like how flaky Daemonettes can be (and neither do I, I don't blame ya), so no point playing with models/units you don't like. I would attempt to drop the KoS, cutting back a bit on the Champions, and then see about fitting in a Havoc group with either Infiltrate or Tank Hunters and Four Blastmasters, and then see about another 6 man noise marine group.


+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts