(1850) Black Legion (Fluff, then List) - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    (1850) Black Legion (Fluff, then List)

    Fluff behind the army
    Some fluff for you people who dig this kind of thing. Skip this part if you are interested in only the list.

    The idea behind this list is a group of dissendents that have broken away from the Night Lords to pursue their own agendas. Before they were disbanded from the Legion, two groups began to show signs of worship of specific Chaos Gods - one group starting becoming even more blood thirsty than their counterparts, demanding that no withdrawal ever be attempted, even though it suited the Night Lord's overall objective.

    The other group became jaded and forlorn. Wrapping bandages around their eyes, the proclaimed that no sight was ever going to spark their battle lust again. Only the screams of the dying would rouse them from their stupor, turning them into frothing, battle crazed madmen that rivaled the best Beserkers of Khorne.

    Soon enough, the two groups starting clashing with each other. Fight broke out in the legion, sometimes on the battlefield. Many Chaos men were killed by their own side, but neither of the two dissedent groups cared. Soon enough, it was evident that Khorne and Slaanesh had new followers, and the Night Lords could not stand for it.

    So, they devised a plan. One influental man would lead both bands out as a vangaurd to the Night Lords advance. Geremain Hayden, or better known for the past few millennia as "Graye", was the only man able to successfuly control both bands. Stoking their need for bloodlust by promising them battle after battle, Graye took command of the dissendents, and along with some Marines not yet devoted to a singular God, moves ahead of the Night Lords, securing worlds for them to easily occupy, and creating general mayhem and havoc before the main Night Lords army arrives. Graye remains completely loyal to the Night Lords, but it is suspected that he is starting to fall under the influence of the Chaos Gods.

    Play Style

    The idea I had is a vanguard army that is throw away regiment. The Night Lords condone the use of Khorne and Slaanesh units, simply because they don't care if they die or not. But the Legion Lords don't want them spreading the "infection" amongst the troops, so they're safely away creating havoc elsewhere.

    The tactics are similar to the Night Lords, with a few new adoptions. Lightening raids are most common, with the entire army appearing at a moment's notice. The Bikers arrive first, as a distracting unit to occupy the enemies attention, while the infiltrators move in to position. They all strike as one. For this reason, there are no Heavy Support options (more on this later). They are all to be Troops, Fast Attack, or Elites. Secondly, every unit that is able to take it gets Infiltrate. If they don't have Infiltrate, they must take some form of speed enhancement, such as Bikes, Rhinos, or Daemonic Flight.

    The List

    HQ - 140 points (7% of army)
    Chaos Lord - 140 points
    • Mark of Chaos Undivided (I may drop this for fluff reasons)
      Power Weapon
      Kai Gun
      Daemonic Flight
      Infiltrate

    Elites - 1031 points (55% of army)
    Chosen Chaos Marines -479 points
    Six {6} Aspiring Champions
    • Mark of Khorne {6}
      Chaos Marine Bikers {6}
      Chaos Hounds {6}
      Axe of Khorne {6}
      Collar of Khorne {1}

    Chaos Havocs - 276 points
    Eight {8} Chaos Havocs Marines
    • Mark of Slaanesh {8}
      Infiltrate {8}
      Blastmaster {4}
      Sonic Blaster {4}

    Chaos Havocs - 276 points
    Eight {8} Chaos Havocs Marines
    • Mark of Slaanesh {8}
      Infiltrate {8}
      Blastmaster {4}
      Sonic Blaster {4}

    Troops - 752 points (40% of army)
    Chaos Space Marines - 192 points
    Seven {7} CSMs and one {1} Aspiring Champion
    • Bolt Pistol {6} and Close Combat Weapon {5}
      Mark of Chaos Undivided {8}
      Infiltrate {8}
      Melta Gun {2}
      Power Fist {1}

    Chaos Space Marines - 192 points
    Seven {7} CSMs and one {1} Aspiring Champion
    • Bolt Pistol {6} and Close Combat Weapon {5}
      Mark of Chaos Undivided {8}
      Infiltrate {8}
      Melta Gun {2}
      Power Fist {1}

    Chaos Space Marines - 184 points
    Seven {7} CSMs and one {1} Aspiring Champion
    • Bolt Pistol {6} and Close Combat Weapon {5}
      Mark of Chaos Undivided {8}
      Infiltrate {8}
      Flamer {2}
      Power Fist {1}

    Chaos Space Marines - 184 points
    Seven {7} CSMs and one {1} Aspiring Champion
    • Bolt Pistol {6} and Close Combat Weapon {5}
      Mark of Chaos Undivided {8}
      Infiltrate {8}
      Flamer {2}
      Power Fist {1}


    Conjectures

    So the way I see this army playing out is the Bikers deploying first, on one flank. Nothing else deploys until the enemy is done deploying. Then all of my infiltrators deploy, with the Noise Marines dropping long to mid range support with the Blastmasters, and the four groups of CCW marines hitting hard and fast. The Lord provides ranged support, but mostly is there just to look good. I could probably knock him down to a Leiut. I just like having the extra wound.

    Some astute readers will see that this list isn't 1850 at all. It's actually 1923 points. So that's what I need some help on - I need to know what to cut. Knocking the Lord to a Leiut saves 15 points, but I'm still short 58 points.

    Some other problems I have - The lack of anti tank. I have two twin-melta gun groups, so that helps, but the Blastmasters can only hit with Strength 8, so AV 14 tanks will be a bear if the Melta Gun groups are indisposed. So one idea is buying Rhinos for the Havocs, dropping Infiltrate in favor of Tank Hunters. But that forces them to set up before infiltrators, which I think is one of the greatest advantages of the Chaos army list.

    Would six man Havoc groups work better than eight?

    I know what alot of you are thinking. "Wow, those Chosen are expensive". Well, you should've seen them before I starting cutting things back. They used to be 629 points, a full 150 points more expensive. I like the idea of 30 power weapon attacks on the charge, with an average of 5 bonus attacks. I may cut out the Axes and take just Power weapons, that'll save 30 points. I also want to add Furious Charge to the Bikers - The bonus initiative will help against MEQs. They'll just need to avoid Genestealers like the plague.

    So, sorry for the long post, but I'm long winded. Any ideas? Comments? Suggestions for improvement? Does anyone like the fluff? Does anyone think it doesn't fit?



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  3. #2
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    5 (x1)

    on the 2 flamer squads. you could drop the power fists and 1 flamer for a power sword and a meltagun for some ranged tankbusting. also they can backup you assault squads with power weapon attacks at in4.

    i prefer etherlances on a shooty lord as i love the template of death.
    this would also count as a power weapon in cc, so you could save 15 points there...

  4. #3
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by deathmonkey
    on the 2 flamer squads. you could drop the power fists and 1 flamer for a power sword and a meltagun for some ranged tankbusting. also they can backup you assault squads with power weapon attacks at in4.
    I'm very leery about having Marine squads without Power Fists. There's not much in the army that can really deal with a Dread in CC, and removing that aspect makes me nervous. You did give me an idea about swapping a Flamer and a Meltagun between the groups, so each group is 1 flamer, one meltagun though. Wonder how that would work?

    Quote Originally Posted by deathmonkey
    i prefer etherlances on a shooty lord as i love the template of death.
    this would also count as a power weapon in cc, so you could save 15 points there...
    Five points, since the Ether Lance costs ten points more than the Kai Gun. Only problem is that I don't want the Lord in CC - I'm trying to get away from having a CC geared Lord, and giving him a weapon that practically forces you to charge right afterwards doesn't appeal to me.

    Anything else? I know it's a long read... but... but... ?


  5. #4
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    746 (x8)

    Oh that's an expens...just kidding
    There is nothing like good background with internal rivality topped with a pinch of hatred. I like this army. But the thing was you wanted to save some points. I've got just about 70 somewhere in my list... No, seriouserly, I know you don't want to hear it but those chosen, they could be somewhat cheaper. Nothing much not like going all Khorne bikers with a tooled up champion (though it would save you some) but I'm thinking about them hounds. Not to take them all to the vet but take say four of them so you would still have an air of Choas Hound innthe unit. Some of them points I would reinvest in the unit though, as I fear they will be targets of quite some small arms fire (bolter and alike) to aid the survivial I would give them the Feel no Pain mega-cheap gift. And then I would get some guys from one of the meltagun squads. Hoping of better chance to infiltrate a smaller unit unseen (12") and hence within range for the guns the carry. I would even consider dropping their champion and liutenenting you lord. This would give you points enough to get that wonderful Furious charge that could easily be the difference between life and death of your bikers. It would be nice to get them 30-35 attacks before being attacked back.

    Andusciassus

  6. #5
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    708 (x8)

    @Andusciassus

    Thanks for the reply. I'm not keen on removing troops from the CSM squads - I want atleast 40% in troops, and they're barely above that at is. But you did get me thinking about the Bikers, as that's where alot of the points are being wasted.

    So, I redid them. And, some people will notice that they're more expensive. But wait! There's a funny story behind that! See, the original idea behind the hounds was to take the initial casualties from small arms fire before the eventual charge, leaving the Chosen unscathed. So, I dropped them, and figured "Hey, if Feel No Pain is 10 points, might as well get Daemonic Armour and just have a 2+ invlun to work off of"... so I took Armour. Then I realized that Feel No Pain was only 5 points... so I... umm... took both.

    And then I took Strength.

    And then Furious Charge.

    Don't judge me!

    I did knock the Axes down to Power Weapons - I felt an average of +5 attacks out of 30 didn't justify 30 points. Besides, tests showed that the unit can wipe out a 10 man tac squad to the man without the extra rolls.

    To make up some points, I dropped the Kai Gun on the Lord, and gave him an Ether Lance. Infiltrate was dropped as well. I realized that my Noise Marines become targets for Deep Strikers all by their lonesome, so he'll provide some form of a counter charge unit to back them up. He's more of a figurehead anyways.

    To free up some points, I dropped two Noise Marines per havoc squad. That gave me enough points left over to distribute some Frag Grenades to my groups. (Send your tank! I got frags! I got frags! BOOM! HEADSHOT!...... err... sorry)

    So, some good advice so far. This is what I've come up with.

    HQ - 116 points (6% of army)
    Chaos Lord - 116 points
    • Frag Grenades
      Ether Lance
      Daemonic Flight


    Elites - 965 points (52% of army)
    Chosen Chaos Marines -521 points
    Six {6} Aspiring Champions
    • Mark of Khorne {6}
      Chaos Marine Bikers {6}
      Daemonic Armour {6}
      Daemonic Strength {6}
      Feel No Pain {6}
      Power Weapons {6}
      Collar of Khorne {1}
      Furious Charge {6}
      Frag Grenades {6}


    Chaos Havocs - 222 points
    Six {6} Chaos Havocs Marines
    • Mark of Slaanesh {6}
      Infiltrate {6}
      Blastmaster {4}
      Sonic Blaster {2}


    Chaos Havocs - 222 points
    Six {6} Chaos Havocs Marines
    • Mark of Slaanesh {6}
      Infiltrate {6}
      Blastmaster {4}
      Sonic Blaster {2}

    The Troops don't change much. Just frags to the Melta Gun groups.

    Troops - 768 points (42% of army)


    Does that look a bit better, even though the Chosen are more expensive? They make up for it by being much more durable (Turbo Boost into a 2+ invuln save, then a 4+ special save, with toughness 5).


  7. #6
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    746 (x8)

    I like your bikers, the first round and whenever they are in cc- they'll be great. The problem is one I've had with my flying possessed of Tzeentch- they are too good. It sounds stupid but when your guys gets to cc they will anihilate whatever unit they fight in the first round (OK some exceptions might exist but as a maine rule) and then they will be out in the open, they are but a crappy diceroll from death. "...and they consolidate...1" to the left )
    And then they would not benefit from the invul. either... (maybe exchange that armour for aura?) But if you are carefull choosing your targets (I'm sure you are but anyway) they could be quite safe.
    I would recomend you to have some fast moving other unit able to create a protective wall of cc around them. Something like Furies or Flesh hounds, just to block line of sight.
    And more then anything else give one of the guys a powerfist. This I think is a must for any Khornate unit. You don't want to end up being forced to charge a dread and just stand there dying for the rest of the battle, now would you?

    I salut any man who have the guts to field a 500p 6-man unit.

    Andusciassus

  8. #7
    Festo Diata TwoHats's Avatar
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    85 (x2)

    ..

    Wow... that Biker squad is down-right vicious. Unbelievably so, when paired with Noise Marine shooting. I really like this list. My only critism is to give your Lord some cheap Daemon upgrades, at the least Strength and Visage. That's only 10 points and it gives you better odds at wounding and scaring (to which you massacre because of your high iniative). Great list!
    2H - LEGIO HYDRA

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