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This is a standard tournament list for Chaos.
HQ: Daemon Prince
Total HQ: 160 pts.
Elites: 10 Chosen
Total Elites: 250 pts.
-2x Plasma Guns
Total Troops: 680 pts.
Heavy Support: Dreadnought
-Additional Close-Combat Weapon
Total Heavy Support: 405 pts.
Army Total: 1495 pts.
Last edited by Runic Blade; October 18th, 2005 at 23:41.
Ok, so, here's my 2 pennies:
1- daemon armor: drop it. You don't need it for the following reasons: Most of the fire directed at the prince will be from lascannons and similar weapons, which take away the 2+ save you receive from the d. armor. In c.c. if you're fighting basic troopies, then your toughness should suffice. If you're fighting monsrous creatures, then you don't get the 2+ save anyways.
2- daemonic rune: This upgrade is questionable. It really depends on what you are facing. I never take it.
3- daemonic essence: Most players will tell you not to take this upgrade. For 15 points, I'd rather have a power fist in my troop squad. I use this upgrade sometimes, but I'm slowly moving away from it.
Some additional upgrade to consider on your prince:
1- daemonic resilience: this will benefit you much more than d. armor. It will help curve your defense in c.c. and help your lord to survive, while he's moving across the board.
2- daemonic strength: same as resilience, but in reverse. This upgrade will really help you tear through basic troopies and anything else.
3- Daemon weapon: He needs a good weapon- Dark blade is always a good generic choice.
4- Movement ability: He needs a way to get across the field. As a monstrous creature he will be targeted at will by your opponents. Consider daemonic speed or flight, unless you are planning on using the chosen as a retinue, in which case your prince cannot be transported by the rhino.
5- Frag grenades: Spent the one point and get the grenades. Worse thing ever: Having your prince die to a dreadnought that is behind cover, and thus geting a 10 init.
1- Where are your weapons?
2- You might want to consider moving this unit into your troop choice and saving points.
1- same, weapons? Do they have c.c. and a pistol?
3- put a power fist on each squad. This will curve the c.c. to your favor and allow this squad to take on dreads, monstrous creatures, and the likes.
4- Just a thought, but consider the Mark of Slaanesh for your troops. Having your opponent at a -1 init will really prove to your advantage.
1- Ten is too many. Eight will usually take out whatever you need.
1- Way too expensive.
2- Drop parasitic possession. It never works in time to pay for itself.
3- Give him a ranged weapon, because you will be very lucky if he ever makes it into c.c. Actually, come to think, he might see c.c. if your enemy concentrates on your rhinos; but even if this happens, you don't need so many upgrades. Keep it cheap and effecient.
4- Take either daemonic possession or mutated hull, but not both. It's just too many points.
5- Given everything that I've said, I think the dread is a really good option for your army, especially if you give it a ranged weapon, which will allow the dread to fire, as it advances towards your enemy. Keep him firing and moving, then assault. Sounds pretty good to me.
1- Drop parasitic possession. I usually suggest the upgrade 'indirect fire,' however, w/ your build, there are just so many targets for your enemy to choose, that I think he might be ok without it. I would still at least consider indirect fire, because a defiler is like a big soar thumb waiting to be hit. It's all about psychology, and this pup is very threatening to most players. Some people will spend all their efforts trying to take it down, in which case your troops are home free. Anways, consider indirect fire. It's still very good.
1- The best thing about your army is the number of threats: Your enemy will have to decide whether to take out the rhinos and stop the assault, take out the defiler and prevent losses (probably choice), concentrate on your dread, etc. I really think you could have a very solid build with some modifications to come.
2- You need more ways of dealing w/ heavily armored vehicles. One squad w/ 2 melta-guns just isn't enough. Consider taking a lascannon on your dread or a multi-melta.
3- To further save points consider having the 3 rhinos empty at the start of the game, and then loading into them first turn. I have not tried this, so I don't know how well this works (if it works well at all). This will save you 150 points. With the points you could save reducing your vehicle upgrades, you could take another troop squad & rhino. Just remember that rhinos are elites if they are not attached to a troop squad.
Last edited by Rabbit; October 19th, 2005 at 05:41.
I think boyd said it all. But beware of the darkblade as it gives you a strength bonus and thus takes away your monsterous creature bonus an armourpenetration on vehicles. Try the Dreadaxe instead and avoid the invul. saves as well as armoursaves. Then add a close combatweapon for that extra attack.
In generall-drop some points from your Heavies and boost the quality on your infantery.
According to your 2 pennies, I will drop the Armour, the Rune, and the Essence from the Prince, and give him Resilience, Strength, Speed, Frags, and a Dreadaxe. I will give the Chosen some heavy weapons, possibly a Missile Launcher or some such device. Then, I will apply a Powerfist unto each squad of Marines. I may also consider the Mark of Slaanesh on my troops. The Bloodletter squad will be reduced to 8, and the Dread will be given a Lascannon, and will have the Daemonic Possession upgrade. The Defiler will be reduced to having the Lascannons, and it will also have the Indirect Fire upgrade. Also, a final addition of a squad of Marines and a Rhino will be highly considered.
For your Chosen, I would consider two plasma guns. It's always good to have more ways to take out troops.
For your Defiler, you mentioned that it will be reduced to having the Lascannons. Did you mean Battlecannon? You originally had mutated hull on it, which is still a good idea.
Anyways, with the aforementioned modifications, I'd be interested to know how your army does in battle.
Take rune, armour and essence off, and put speed on and you'll have a powerful unit for cheap. He'll still eat SMs and their comanders.Originally Posted by Runic BladeI love using the daemon icon in chosen squads, but to save points I would drop the squad to 6, put in a asp champ with fist, get rid of the rhino and give them infiltrate. The bloodletters may have a 1st turn charge, and the chosen are more of a back up for the bloodletters. In this squad you are paying 30 points, in order to spend 20 points to get the deamons summoned whenever you want, but you arn't going to be near his lines with a rhino until turn 2 or 3 anyway. If you want the Icon infiltrate them, if you don't turn this squad into a troops choice.Originally Posted by Runic BladeNothing wrong here. I agree that 8 bloodletters will do as well as 10, but as they are your main CC thrust in your army, 10 will give you room to take casuallties. Sure the first squad will die easy, but what about the 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th? The extra numbers can give them the durability to last the whole game.Originally Posted by Runic Blade
I might put an asp champ with fist in with the meltas, makes the squad a threat in shooting or CC.The only reason I see to take a second CC weapon is to keep the dread cheap. But with all the upgrades you can take 2 dreads with twin CC weapons. I would always take 2 cheap dreads over 1 powerful expencive one. If you don't own two dreads with twin CC weapons, I would just take mutated hull +extra armour, and maybe Destroyer if you really want the extra movement.Originally Posted by Runic BladeDrop the parasitic possession. I think there are only two defilers that work well for their points. One with indirect fire and nothing else, or one with mutated hull and nothing else. You are already paying far more for the battle cannon then say an Imp Guard player, don't go overboard.Originally Posted by Runic Blade
I laughed really hard once when I saw someone put down a fully upgraded 300 point defiler.
I will agree with xrix, and I will add 2 Dreadknights, each with an additional CCW, and I will have the Defiler come with Inderect Fire on it. It is just going to come with a Battle Cannon, not Twin-Linked Lascannons. I can not pay that much for it. Also, I will get the Chosen squad down to 6, with Infiltrate and a Power Fist. I might also add another squad of Marines, and also modify the Daemon Prince.