[1500] Emperor's Children (close combat) - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    [1500] Emperor's Children (close combat)

    This build is designed to go against the following armies: Genestealer build (Tyranid), Godzilla (Tyranid Monstrous Creature Army), Necrons, and Space Marines (w/ 6x land speeders).

    My points may be a little off, because I no longer have my codex. My dog recently decided to shred it to pieces and then mark it as his territory- eh.


    H.Q.- Lord: 168
    MoS
    Daemonic Stature
    Daemonic Strength
    Daemonic Resilience
    Daemonic Flight
    Daemonic Aura
    Combat Drugs
    2x C.C. Weapons
    Frag Grenades


    TROOPS: Concerning aspiring champions- I’ve decided in favor of a power fist over a power weapon & daemonic strength to help against Godzilla.

    6x Noise Marine Squad #1: 153
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol, frag grenades
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

    6x Noise Marine Squad #2: 153
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol, frag grenades
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

    6x Noise Marine Squad #3: 147
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

    6x Daemonette Horde #1: 90

    6x Daemonette Horde #2: 90


    FAST ATTACK:

    6x Noise Marine Bike Squad #1: 261
    *5x Bikers- MoS, sonic blaster.
    *1x A.C. Biker- MoS, power fist, sonic blaster

    6x Noise Marine Bike Squad #2: 261
    *5x Bikers- MoS, sonic blaster.
    *1x A.C. Biker- MoS, power fist, sonic blaster


    HEAVY:

    5x Noise Havoc Squad: 175
    *4x MoS, missile launchers
    *1x MoS, bolter, c.c. weapon

    TOTAL POINTS: 1496

    Last edited by Rabbit; October 20th, 2005 at 22:31.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Centum's Avatar
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    I dont play Slaanesh, and never have played against them, but if I were you I would make a shooty army, I doubt you will be able to go blow for blow with a 'Stealer in CC. They are nasty devils, and much cheaper than any of your models. Even with warp scream your still going to be striking last against those stealers, and by then half of your squad will probably be whiped out.

    -Centum
    You Can't Stop the Eighp

    Had Tzeentch before I knew how to play :P

  4. #3
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centum
    I dont play Slaanesh, and never have played against them, but if I were you I would make a shooty army, I doubt you will be able to go blow for blow with a 'Stealer in CC. They are nasty devils, and much cheaper than any of your models. Even with warp scream your still going to be striking last against those stealers, and by then half of your squad will probably be whiped out.

    -Centum
    I've been playing Slaanesh for a while now and always made shooty builds. This is my attempt to make a c.c. oriented army. A c.c. Slaanesh build is more 'point friendly,' as the shooty version is rather expensive for what you get. But you're right about genes, and I have the same concerns.
    Last edited by Rabbit; October 20th, 2005 at 18:57.

  5. #4
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    My points may be a little off, because I no longer have my codex. My dog recently decided to shred it to pieces and then mark it as his territory- eh.
    Okay, I'll try to double check your points costs for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    H.Q.- Lord: 166
    Close. 168 on the points. Seems fine, though I'm not a fan of Statured Lords. I would prefer normal sized and a Darkblade, but to each his own. For a Statured Lord, he works well.
    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    TROOPS: Concerning aspiring champions- I’ve decided in favor of a power fist over a power weapon & daemonic strength to help against Godzilla.
    You could always do both - I've been toying with the idea of having both weapons on a Champion lately, just to keep the options open. Haven't run any live exercises with them yet, but I think the results are going to be nice. Many players take Daemonic Strength with the Powerfist anyways, so swapping that for a Powerweapon is only five more points. Not exactly breaking the bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    6x Noise Marine Squad #1, #2: 152
    Very close - the two groups that have Frags are actually 153 points. I realize you didn't want to buy frags for the Champion, but you don't have a choice. Since the unit as a whole gets them, so much the Champion. Otherwise, nice, solid units.

    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    6x Noise Marine Bike Squad #1, #2: 262
    Again, very close. 261, assuming the Champion also has a Sonic Blaster. Solid units.
    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    5x Noise Havoc Squad: 175
    I worry about the size of this group - only one red shirt to eat a wound, means you'll be losing heavy weapons quicker than you like. Otherwise, I like the unit. You may consider swapping the Missile Launchers for Autocannons. They'll serve you better versus the Space Marine and Tyranid lists, although you lose a bit of versatility against the Necrons.

    My big concern is the lack of models - it's one reason I dislike Slaaneshi troop units. Six is just too small of a unit for me. But there's not much to do about that, other than buy more units, or actually pay for the Champions (which isn't as a bad idea as you might think).

    If it were me, I would drop one of the two biker units. Use the points to beef up the Havoc squad by two models, and either buy another Noise Marine unit, or another Havoc unit. Especially against the Tyranid lists, another squad of Havocs with Autocannons will be invaluable.


  6. #5
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    Seems fine, though I'm not a fan of Statured Lords. I would prefer normal sized and a Darkblade, but to each his own. For a Statured Lord, he works well.
    I really like the immediate threat of the statured lord w/ flight. He draws fire away from my troops and causes absolute havoc once he gets into c.c.. I would consider using a non-statured lord. What's your reason for the non-statured lord? Is it point cost? The ability to join another unit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    You could always do both - I've been toying with the idea of having both weapons on a Champion lately, just to keep the options open. Haven't run any live exercises with them yet, but I think the results are going to be nice. Many players take Daemonic Strength with the Powerfist anyways, so swapping that for a Powerweapon is only five more points. Not exactly breaking the bank.
    I'm very interested in seeing if double-stacking weapons on an A.C. pays for itself. Please keep us posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    I worry about the size of this group - only one red shirt to eat a wound, means you'll be losing heavy weapons quicker than you like. Otherwise, I like the unit.
    Note taken: I'll be increasing the number of the havoc squad to 7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    You may consider swapping the Missile Launchers for Autocannons. They'll serve you better versus the Space Marine and Tyranid lists, although you lose a bit of versatility against the Necrons.
    If it were me, I would drop one of the two biker units. Use the points to beef up the Havoc squad by two models, and either buy another Noise Marine unit, or another Havoc unit. Especially against the Tyranid lists, another squad of Havocs with Autocannons will be invaluable.
    At your advice, I'm thinking about adding another havoc squad and dropping a bike squad. With two havoc squads, I am debating whether to have one missile squad & one auto-cannon squad; or two auto-cannon squads. Hmm....

  7. #6
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    A couple of developments have occured in my neck of the woods. My army will no longer face a genestealer build, rather, that player has chosen a bug mix (Tyrant, Lictors, Genes, the likes). A new list of my opponents are as follows: Tyranids, Godzilla (Tyranid Monstrous Creature Army), Necrons, and Space Marines (w/ 6x land speeders).

    I have already edited some of the suggestions made by Caluin.
    Below are a couple of H.Q. configurations I am considering:

    Option #1- This lord will presumeably join with a Noise marine squad
    H.Q.- Lt: 120
    MoS
    Kai gun
    Power Weapon
    Daemonic Strength
    Infiltrate

    Option #2- This lord will presumeably join with the biker squad
    H.Q.- Lt: 120
    MoS
    Bike
    Darkblade
    Melta gun


    TROOPS:

    6x Noise Marine Squad #1: 147
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

    6x Noise Marine Squad #2: 147
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

    6x Noise Marine Squad #3: 147
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

    6x Noise Havoc Squad #4: 147
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

    6x Daemonette Horde #1: 90

    6x Daemonette Horde #2: 90


    FAST ATTACK:

    6x Noise Marine Bike Squad: 262
    *5x Bikers- MoS, sonic blaster.
    *1x A.C. Biker- MoS, power fist, sonic blaster


    HEAVY: The last havoc squad was created to fill the roll of additional troop squads. I am wondering whether adding these two squads is better than increasing the number of models in my current troop squads- hmm...

    6x Noise Havoc Squad #1: 194
    *4x MoS, missile launchers
    *2x MoS, bolter, c.c. weapon

    6x Noise Havoc Squad #2: 147
    *5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
    *1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol


    TOTAL POINTS: Pending
    Last edited by Rabbit; October 22nd, 2005 at 15:16.

  8. #7
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    Option #1- This lord will presumeably join with a Noise marine squad
    135 points, actually. It would be 136, but you can't take the CCW (Two weapon limit). I'm not a big fan of sticking a Kai Gun onto a unit that plans on making it into Close Combat. He's a good Lord, but I don't think he'll do well in Close Combat. If you kept him out of Close Combat, he'd be great, if a bit vulnerable.

    If you go this route, he's probably better off being a Lieut.

    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    Option #2- This lord will presumeably join with the biker squad
    135 points as well. If you plan on hitting Close Combat, this is the way to go. Except no on the Powerfist - initiative 1 on an IC is a risky gamble, and likely to get him killed. Best to stick with a Powerweapon, or some sort of Daemon Weapon. Why the Plasma Gun? I'd stick a Melta Gun on him instead, so he can perform impromptu Tank Bashing if the need arises without inconveniencing the Biker Squad. You only have the one Havoc unit for MC/Tank Hunting, so having an extra gun can't hurt.

    Everything else looks great. I think I'd still drop the Missile Launchers in favor of Autocannons, but I'm on an AC kick lately. I've recently come to realize their full potential, and I'll never go without them again.

    EDIT - I meant to put in more.

    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    I really like the immediate threat of the statured lord w/ flight. He draws fire away from my troops and causes absolute havoc once he gets into c.c.. I would consider using a non-statured lord. What's your reason for the non-statured lord? Is it point cost? The ability to join another unit?
    That's exactly why - I like my Lords to not have a huge "Lascannon Me" sign on their chest. Sneaky is my style.

    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    I'm very interested in seeing if double-stacking weapons on an A.C. pays for itself. Please keep us posted.
    It may be a li'l while. I'm running into a severe lack of points in my current list, and really have only two options for freeing up points for the Powerweapons - either drop the Oblits, or drop Daemonic Mutation. Neither I'm keen on.
    Last edited by Caluin; October 22nd, 2005 at 03:45.


  9. #8
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caluin
    I'm not a big fan of sticking a Kai Gun onto a unit that plans on making it into Close Combat. He's a good Lord, but I don't think he'll do well in Close Combat. If you kept him out of Close Combat, he'd be great, if a bit vulnerable.
    If the H.Q. joins another squad, then he should have no problem staying alive. Also, he has good stats. What's the problem with his c.c.?

    I'm getting a new codex some time in the next few days, until then please excuse my silly questions. Oh, I have one already: Can an H.Q. on a bike carry a two-handed c.c. weapon (darkblade in particular)?
    Last edited by Rabbit; October 22nd, 2005 at 06:37.

  10. #9
    Outcast Shinigami thedrifter777's Avatar
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    Look good, I must say using havocs as CC squads is only seen in death guard army. Tell us how your list works out.
    "Dare to be Naive"

    If someone helps you, or you just like what they say, rep them

  11. #10
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    If the H.Q. joins another squad, then he should have no problem staying alive. Also, he has good stats. What's the problem with his c.c.?
    The Kai Gun is a two handed weapon. Means he doesn't get the +1 attack bonus. Secondly, it's an expensive piece of ranged wargear that can't be used in Close Combat. If your Lord is mired in CC for two or more rounds, that's two or more rounds you can't use that great gun.

    My point is if he's a shooty Lord, he should be stuck in a shooty squad.
    Quote Originally Posted by boydgarrett
    I'm getting a new codex some time in the next few days, until then please excuse my silly questions. Oh, I have one already: Can an H.Q. on a bike carry a two-handed c.c. weapon (darkblade in particular)?
    DarkBlade is one handed.

    Now, as for the question... well, that's iffy. By the letter of the rules, yes. By the spirit of the rules, no.


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