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HQ 1: Daemon Prince (182p)- Mark of Khorne
- Frag Grenades
- Spikey Bits
- Close Combat Weapon
- Daemonic Strenght
- Daemonic Essence
- Daemonic Stature
- Daemonic Flight
- Daemonic Aura
- Daemonic Resiliance
- Feel No PainHQ 2: Bloodthirster (2XXp Silly copyright rules.)
We play with lots of area terrain, so getting him across the board in once piece shouldn't be to hard. I did consider giving him Daemonic Flight instead though. Think that would be a good idea?
EDIT 1: Daemonic Essence changed to Daemonic Resiliance, I must have messed up the names when posting the list. Furious Charge dropped.
EDIT 2: Strenght dropped, speed dropped. Flight added, collar of Khorne added.
EDIT 3: Darkblade replaced with Daemonic Strenght and Daemonic Mutation.Troops 1: Daemon Pack (206p)Cute and cuddly, shouldn't be much trouble getting him into action seing as his daemonhost rides a bike.- 8 BloodlettersTroops 2: Daemon Pack (206p)Berzerkers don't fit in to well in this army, even though they're faster than normal infantry they're still quite slow. Once these guys arrive they won't need to run half the distance any 'zerkers would. Also, I've got a buddy selling the minis quite cheaply. :>- 8 BloodlettersFast Attack 1: Chaos Space Marine Biker Squad (293p)Same as the last one.- 6 Chaos Space Marine BikersAspiring Champion
- Mark of Khorne x6
- Khornate Chainaxes x6
- Frag Grenades x6- Lightning Claw
- Daemonic Mutation
- Daemonic Visage
- Collar of KhorneFast Attack 1: Chaos Space Marine Biker Squad (267p)4 aren't enough, 8 are to many. Turboboost behind terrain, try and summon the 'letters then charge. Quite simple really. I like bikes, both rulewise and modelwise.
EDIT 1: Apparently Chainaxes are an unit upgrade so this squad costed me another point, so I dropped Visage to make up for that. Did the same thing in the second bike squad, but they never had visage in the first place.
EDIT 2: Added Mutation. Visage is back too. Switched powerfist for a lightning claw and added a Collar of Khorne.
EDIT 2: Dropped Collar. List was 5p overweight.- 6 Chaos Space Marine BikersAspiring Champion
- Mark of Khorne x6
- Khornate Chainaxes x6
- Daemonic Chains
- DaemonhostHeavy Support 1: Chaos Dreadnought (173p)Same idea as the last squad, except that I needed someone to be the daemonhost so I gave him chains to increase the chance of the 'thirster popping up in time to join the first charge. Incase he doesn't however, I gave him a powerweapon and frag grenades because I had the points left over.
EDIT: Powerweapon and frag grenades removed.- Twin-linked Autocannon
- Mutated Hull
- Extra Armour
- Smoke LaunchersHeavy Support 2: Chaos Dreadnought (173p)Well, with double close combat weapons and the destroyer this guy will have a 50% chance of entering blood rage and when he does he'll have 8 S10 attacks on the charge. Same as with the bikes, I like Dreads both rule and modelwise.
EDIT 1: Dropped Possession, for extra armour and smoke launchers on both Dreads.
EDIT 2: Second Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon dropped in favour of a Twin-linked Autocannon. Same goes for the other Dread.- Twin-linked Autocannon
- Mutated Hull
- Extra Armour
- Smoke Launchers1700 points(0p left over), 30 models, 2 vehicles.Same as the one above.
The idea is pretty much to have the lord jump from hiding place to hiding place untill he gets close enough to charge, the bikes will turboboost and hide behind cover to mimimize enemy shooting against them, summon bloodletters and charge. The dreads do what the lord at their own pace. They're still quite fast when they enter rage every other round.
It's pretty much an all or nothing army; Sneak, Summon, Slaughter. The main reason I'm building this army ain't because I'd like to play it, heck, these guys are just a change from my guards. No, this army I build because it seems fun to build and paint. It's a nice change from all those Imperial Guard tanks and Cadians I've got.
You're over the Daemonic Gifts cap by five points. My suggestion is to drop Essence. Since you have a few points left over, might as well take Collar of Khorne too. Also, drop the Furious Charge. There's very little that strength 9 will do for you that strength 8 won't.Originally Posted by KaiserThat depends on how big the board is. The farther you have to go, the more effective Flight becomes. On most standard boards, speed is better since it's slightly cheaper.Originally Posted by KaiserNothing wrong with 'Letters. Good squad size (Which is very convenient of Khorne.)Originally Posted by KaiserChainaxes are unit upgrades - if you buy them for one model in the squad, you'll need to buy it for everyone. The only exception is taking a single one for Champions as they can buy it from the Gifts of the Gods list. This basically means you're short one point for this squad and the next. If you dropped Essence from earlier, you have the points left over still. Otherwise, consider just dropping Visage.Originally Posted by Kaiser
Everything else looks fine.Same as above. I was going to berate you for the Powerweapon, but you explained it nicely enough. Seems solid.Originally Posted by KaiserYou don't quite have a 50% chance. You still have those Storm Bolters forcing you to Fire Frenzy on a 6.Originally Posted by Kaiser
One option is to drop the Daemonic Possession and swap it for Extra Armour. I know it sounds off, but in reality, you want your 2XDCCW Dreads to be Shaken. This gives them no functioning ranged weapons, so they end up Blood Raging on a six no matter what's in range. The downside is once they reach Close Combat, they are susceptible to losing attacks due to the Shaken results.
It looks like a solid enough list. A bit shaky, as your Dreads are the only armour and probably won't live to see the end of any battles. Alot hinges on getting the Bloodthirster and Daemons out second turn. As I said before, it'd be a very fun list to play, but nothing I'd take to a serious match.
It's more there because of the extra I than the extra S. Being able to decapitate things like Space Marine Commanders before they can do anything is a nice ability. The extra S is just a bonus really. But then, I guess the points are better spent elsewhere. Suggestions?Originally Posted by Caluin6x4 feet with plenty of terrain, in rare cases bigger.Originally Posted by CaluinReally? I was quite certain it was otherwise since nobody ever leaves their champion with just a chainaxe but instead replace it with a powerfist or powerweapon. Oh well. Visage goes and I'll change the points for both bikesquads accordingly.Originally Posted by CaluinDang. You're right. Takes alot of fun out of it. Oh well.Originally Posted by CaluinYou make a very good point, but I just read the rulebook about both walkers and crew shaken results, and all I can find says that I cannot shoot while shaken, but nothing about not being able to attack in close combat. Could you point me to the rule you're talking about, it would be appreciated.Originally Posted by CaluinThat's more or less the point! Fun to play, as you said, alot depends on the daemons arriving on turn 2, but that's part of the fun. Not trying to make a powergaming list or anything, just one that would be fun to build paint and play. Seing as none of the units in the army are affected by the drawback of blood frenzy I think it'll be alot of fun.Originally Posted by Caluin
Thanks for your comments.
Ah, that sure clear things up. I think I'll go with extra armour over possession then. I don't think I would ever have thought about the advantages with extra armour over possession in this case. Problem is what to spend the remaining points on now... Lord is pretty beefed up as it is, daemons can't recive any extra beefing, dreads are pretty maxed too which pretty much leaves me with either another small unit or more goodies for the bikes.Originally Posted by Caluin
So, possesion went in favour of extra armour and smoke launchers on the dreads. The biker champion that isn't possessed by the 'thirster got Daemonic Mutation and Daemonic Visage, still leaves me with 29p left over, so I switched the powerfist for a lightning claw... just because I could really. Gave him a Collar of Khore too, also just because I could.
Now with 14p left over I'm thinking of dropping that frag grenade on the possessed champion and giving the lord his Furious Charge back... just to minimize the risk och him failing to smash a tank just because the dicegods hate me and giving him the chance to decapitate things like Chaos Lords and Space Marine Commanders before they can do anything about it.
Really nice fluffy list there. I was worried about the DP and the Bloodthirster in a 1700pt list (too cheezy for my tastes in general), but without heaps of Berserkers it is acceptable. My only concern with the list is that your Daemonhost is damn expensive. Don't give him any upgrades besides the basic ones (MoK, D Chains). He's already hitting with the Bloodthirster's strength, and he probably won't be around long enough for that anyway.
As for the plan, it's not bad. Tau, IG or Necrons could counter it in the first turn with luck. My suggestion is to definitely give the DP D Flight. You'll need at least two things that can summon the daemons on the second turn. Right now if you lose your bike squad, you're stuffed, just because D Speed isn't reliable enough.
Beasts of Chaos (4000)
Chaos Marines (3000)
Aye, it is true that he's quite expensive, but even if I cut down on the stuff I have given him I have no idea what to spend those extra points on. Right now my army build is balanced in a way so I only need to get 3 boxes of 3 bikes and a box of 'zerkers to make all the bikes(got one bike done already and a few chainaxes lying around.)Originally Posted by Tones
Making the bike units any bigger ain't really an option since it'll be incredibly hard to efficiently move 7+ bikes around, hiding them all behind terrain and moving them through bottlenecks and such.Aye, as an IG player myself I know what one good round of shooting can do. I could give my prince flight, but it's more expensive than speed and he's already reached his 100p limit meaning that I'd have to drop two gifts in favour flight and then be left with so few points that all I could give him is a Collar of Khorne.(Besides, I'm not confident enough in my modelling skills to glue wings on his back.) A good thing that I've got two bike squads.Originally Posted by Tones
I have to say that a statured prince and a bloodthirster is kind of cheezy...
If you drop the thirster you could make the second bike champ a threat and add in more bloodletters. Overall it looks like a really fun list.
A few more suggestions:
Daemonic Flight- I usually use flight on my statured princes, but then again, I play w/ alot of large terrain pieces and rivers. If you have impassable terrain, then flight is superior. Just another thing to keep in mind
Daemonic essence- I think your prince is fine without essence. This being said, I often find that essence is what allows my statured prince to get into c.c. In a 1700 game, any shooty army will have a field day w/ this guy. Consider at least adding essence back in. I would much prefer essence to spiky bits and d. strenght (seeing as how you already have a strength 7). In fact, if you drop bits and strength, & speed, then you would have enough for essence & flight.
BLOODTHIRSTER: Any time I've taken a d.p and the thirster, I always win by a landslide or lose by a landslide. Keep in mind that a shooty army could come very close to wiping your side board by the second turn, even with the 3+ inv save on your bikes after turbo-boosting. At any rate, I've found this build only works against certain opponents. It is an exciting build for sure. One more thing- be sure to look for the astonishment on your opponent's face, when you summon all those bloodletters and the thirster.
BIKERS: You mentioned that eight bikers is too much. I'm assuming you mean it's too much to have two squads of eight bikes each. Yes, that would be too much in a 1700 build. I like that you've taken six in each squad. This should really make your opponent have to calculate where he wants to focus. It's a chore to properly allocate one's ranged weapons to take out two squads of six bikers; much more of a challenge than taking out one squad of 12. Nice
Power weapon on A.C.- Even with your explanation, I'd advise against it. Like Caluin said, "keep it safe...keep it hidden," oh, wait, I meant, "keep it cheap." (sry, LotR fluff....couldn't help myself).
Biker A.C. as your Daemon Host - yes, he's expensive, but your paying for speed in order to get your thirster out quicker. Considering that you don't have any zerkers, the biker A.C. is your next best option. Still, I'd rather seen a zerker as ahost, especially when the thirster has a good movement ability. I rarely have a problem getting the thirster into c.c. the second round w/ a squad of zerkers, but I've been lucky. Basically, you're paying alot to make sure your thirster will be in range the second round.
Eh, ok, here is the problem with your dreads: Everything else in your army has either a movement ability or is summoned. Thus, after the 3rd round, when your army is in c.c., your dreads will still be footslogging across the board. And, since the rest of your army is in c.c., your dreads will be the prime target for landspeeders and the likes. I seriously doubt they will ever see c.c., which brings me to the question, "Why not equip a ranged weapon? World Eaters have virtually no ranged attacks, and so, when you take a dread, you should really cater to your weakness. Give them ranged weapons. It will raise their price, but then again, it should really fix your problems.
Personally I would consider another 8 bloodletters to be even more cheesy than the thirster, but that might just be me.Originally Posted by xrix1Not much impassable terrain, but alot of forests and ruins. The thing is, that since flight costs more than speed I would have to drop another gift from him in order to get flight. Also, I don't think there's any wings that comes with the GW Daemon Prince model, so I would have buy a fantasy dragon or similar in order to get a pair of fitting size.Originally Posted by boydgarrettHmm... you're not the first one to say that. I can't find a way to add essence though, but strenght and speed went in favour of flight. Since I had five points of gifts left to give him I gave him a Collar.Originally Posted by boydgarrettAye, everything depends on the daemons arriving on turn 2... perhaps even 3 if I'm lucky. It's true that shooty armies could wipe my side of the board quite early, however, I don't intend to remain on my side of the board for long as you can see. Either way I think it'll be a fun list to play... and I'll be sure to look for the "O_O" expression when the daemons pop up. :>Originally Posted by boydgarrettI meant that having 8 bikes in one squad would be a bit to many. They take up quite alot of space so I'll have trouble placing 8 of them behind cover and moving through bottlenecks without their numbers slowing them down. 5-6 bikers are good numbers in my eyes.Originally Posted by boydgarrettAlrighty then, less toys for that guy. :>Originally Posted by boydgarrettAye, but 'zerkers don't really fit into the idea of this army, even if I give them a rhino to act as a mobile wall to shield them I doubt they'll ever reach CC themselves, not with so few models in the rest of the army. So sure, I could put the 'thirster into a squad of 'zerkers, but the 'zerkers themselves would probably not be able to do anything before getting shot to pieces.Originally Posted by boydgarrettWell, before Caluin pointed it out, I thought that DCCW Dreads with destroyer would rage even on 6's, therefore having them rage on 1, 2 and 6. Sadly this was not the case, but the dreads have just remained unchanged.Originally Posted by boydgarrett
I guess twin-linked autocannons would be the way to go. The prince and the 'thirster should be enough to deal with heavier armour, so two autocannons to nail those skimmers out of the sky is probably the way to go. Doesn't really fit into the rest of the army though. Oh well, I do like autocannons too. :>
Adding the autocannons put the list to 1705 points though, so I'll drop the collar on the biker champion.