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Here are my 1200 and 1500 lists that I have been using lately. I mentioned in the chaos forum that I've been playing an Eldar list with the 1200 and having a hard time with their speed. I'm planning on making 2 more full squads of 20 cultists, and a predator. Any advice is appreciated.
Lord=Infiltrate, Furious charge, spiky bits, bionics, D. Aura, D. Mutation, D. Resiliance, D. Essence. PF and plasma pistol (I attached him to the assault unit)
Cultists x20= furious charge/infiltrate, melta bombs
CSM x8= 7 bolters, 1 plasmagun, infiltrate, counter attack
Champion w/ powerfist and bolt pistol, infiltrate, counter attack
CSM x7= 4 CCW+pistol, 2 meltaguns, infiltrate, furious charge
Champion w/ powersword, pistol, infiltrate, furious charge
Fallen Angels x10= 9 bolters, 1 plasma gun, infiltrate, move through cover.
Dreadnought=mutated hull, havoc missle launcher, D. possesion, TLLC, CCW
Here is the 1500 point list I'm using.
Lt=spiky bits, D. strength, D. Aura, D. Armor, power weapon, plasma pistol, infiltrate, furious charge
Chosen Termi x6= 2PF, 2LC, 2PW, 2 RAC, tank hunters
Fallen Angels x11= 9 bolters, 1 plasma gun, infiltrate, counter attack.
Champion w/ powerweapon, plasma pistol, D. strength, D. mutation, infiltrate,counter attack
Cultists x20= ifiltrate/furious charge, meltabombs, frag grenades.
CSM x8= 6 bolters, 1 plasma gun, infiltrate, counter attack
Champion w/ powerfist, pistol, spiky bits
CSM x7= 4 CCW+pistol, 2 meltaguns, infiltrate, furious charge
Champion w/ power weapon, bolt pistol, D. strength, D. Mutation, spiky bits
Dreadnought= TLLC, CCW
The fist on the lord is a bit iffy... it's a total waste of his incredible initiative.
I think you should bite the bullet, get rid of bionics, and go for dark blade.
I think the aspiring champ would be much better with le fist o power.
The D.resilience is useless if you're being shot at, but once you getinto assault I guess its. ok.
Nice to see 20 cultists.. a big shame you can't have the 'genestealer' champ though. Think about it
I've never seen the cypher fallen angels, so shan't comment.
I dunno about the dreadnought either. TLLC and missile launcher are quite a lot.
When you say eldar and speed, is that skimmers or their troops or Initiative?
Have you considered some infiltrating autocannon boyos?
I like the termies on your 1500 list. have you considered deep striking them? (otherwise they're on foot).
Hope that helped a wee bit.
I am karmoon.
Yea I plan to try the the Lord with the dark blade, and it costs the same as the PF so no points diff. He is actually a character I made up, and moded, and because of his fluff, he always has resilience and aura. I moded a cool PF to go with his fluff, but he is magnatized to use any weapon.
Cypher is basicaly a tricked out marine with pistols and PW in combat. The Fallen are played just like Space Marines including ATSKNF rule. My army is kind of built and modded around the Fallen. My dread and termies are modeled as Fallen.
My next purchase is the uber havocs with 4 AC.
I personally don't like the idea of a Init 1 weapon being used in an assault squad. I know almost everyone out there is pro PF no matter what, but to me it doesn't make sence. I prefer going at Init 4, S5(deamon str) or if I charge Init 5 S6 and of course a powerweapon. So my assault asquads will not have powerfists. If I charge, which is my ideal for an assault squad, S6 not much different then S8 for wounding a morjority of stuff out there.
For the Eldar question, both actually. Their FoF kind of messes with me still when judging how I should deploy and move etc. The 1200 game they used a Vyper and a Falcon both, but they were less of an issue. Hehe actually my cultists took out the vyper with the meltabombs. Nothing like 14 rolls to try and hit, each one 2d6+8
You should add this guy to your army.
Karmoon is referring to TheYak's patented Cultist Champion w/ daemonic talons, spiky bits, and daemonic mutation, who "has 20 lives" if you put him in your gigantor cult squad. He fits the squads anti-armor character with his talons, and he will eat the odd veteran sergeant / exarch alive, because they have to churn through so many bodies to get at him.
Last edited by Sabrewulf; July 12th, 2006 at 02:46.
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Hi Gman, here are my thoughs on your list.Your lord, should never... EVER have a powerfist.Originally Posted by Gman
Darkblade, D.Strength and Furious charge- more expensive but its strength 8 attacks at I6, well worth the cost. Get RID of that plasma pistol too. he will be facing enough things that want to hurt him, his own toys should not be one of them, if you must have a plasma pistol, master craft it(though its even more expensive then)I've noticed that the popularity of cultists have come up. As mentioned,Originally Posted by Gman
a 20 man cultist squad with assasins.
the champion with D.Talons, D.Mutation,D.Strength, Spikey bits.
On the charge, its 5 str 5 attacks with rending(better than a genestealer)
They are best used to hunt power armor, and monsterous creatures.Interesting choice.Originally Posted by Gman
infiltrate and counter attack, why?
I suggest a pair of meltaguns.
Mark of Chaos undivided is also a must.powerfist powerfist owerfist, its just better hidden than any other choice.Originally Posted by Gman
Also MoCU.Hmm.. cypher. I've played against a number of cypher toting list, I have to say cypher himself is a bargain, fallen angels just die without doing diddly.Originally Posted by GmanWhy play alpha legion if you are going to use models that can't infiltrate or deep strike?Originally Posted by Gman
I suggest switching out the dread for obliterators, far more flexable, better unit overall.drop powerweapon and D.armor for Darkblade, BAM a better choice(make this guy a lord since you're paying for so much stuff on him.Originally Posted by GmanUgh, chosen. 2 poerfists, 2 lightning claws, and 2 power weapons. what an extremely expensive bunch of guys.Originally Posted by Gman
I suggest scrapping them, but if you must have them, structure them like a normal squad.
chose up to half of the models to have wargear and the rest are to soak up hits without losing potency.same as above.Originally Posted by GmanOriginally Posted by Gman
So, some interesting choices, the suggestions are just that, if it doesn't fit in with the way you envision your army to function then go for it.
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Hmm I just read the patent "20 lives" cultists champion yesterday. As a general theme with teh Fallen in the army, that doesn't fit. This is because I'm treating the cultists as hired mercenaries the Fallen hired to fill the ranks. Thusly why I don't have any deamons. BUT I do plan to run the occasional all AL list, at which point I can use such a model, so maybe I'll have some fun and model one up. Nasty combo.
Good suggestions for my HQs
I have infiltrate and counter attack on my shooty squads because I have had the CA save me a few times when they get assaulted. My experience with shooty squads is they get assaulted, the first 3-4 die, and then the rest are not engaged and can't attack back. So then the next round my opponents assaulty squad kills the rest of mine, who only have one attack. I tend to spread my shooty squads out a bit, and don't pack them in like I do an assault squad.
I like keeping rapid fire weapons all in one squad, and the assault weapons all in one squad. I used to mix and match and found it less effective. /shrug. So I'm trying the plasma with the bolters for the rapid fire high St and AP, and then the meltas in the assault squads, since they are moving around much more and have more opportunies to use the short range.
Again on the assaulty squads, I don't like the use of a PF, and well my guys are now modeled with the PW, sooo.... By the way, what is this "hidden powerfist" I keep reading about? My guess is that people don't use WYSIWYG and don't model a PF, but pay the points. What's the deal?
I'm using the dread because well, I've never used one, and I had fun converting it as a Fallen Angels dread. But he makes a good "bait" model for my opponent to deploy against before I infiltrate. I have a predator in the box I want to use as well, for similar purposes. Right now I deploy the dread, and Cypher. My opponent deploys, and then I put the fallen right up with Cypher, and deploy the rest of my army.
Like I said above, for when I want to play a pure AL list, I have 3 oblits and some deamons to use from my Undivided army.
I know chaos termies are expensive and hard to use right. They are all converted and painted and looking cool, as Fallen Angels termies. I'm experimenting with DS them off of a champion or my HQ that infiltrated, using teleport homer. I'm also trying the tactic of deploying them, and then infiltrating my cultists right in front of them. "The red shirt shield" Once I get more models finished for this army they may or may not stay.
Any thoughts on dealing with fast moving lists like Eldar, or Tyranids? I do have 2 more squads of cultists yet to be modeled, and plan to model 1 more shooty and one more assault squad, as well as a havoc squad or two and some raptors.
Last edited by Gman; July 12th, 2006 at 16:14.
The genestealer cultist :-
Hmmmm.. agree with you on that buddy - not too fluffy. But, I don't think it's OTT to at least give him a power weapon, which will still slice through all your armoured foes.
The hidden power fist :-
Ties in closely with the Genestealer cultist. This is when a squad of say 8 marines and a champ with a P.Fist get into assault. The 8 marines act as a meat shield or abalative wounds for the fisted champ. This means that the fist is 'hidden' in abalative wounds, and will inevitably rear up and leave a nasty mark on your opponent despite being initiative 1.
So, by extension, the genestealer cultist could also be referred to as hidden genestealer or something equally silly.
WYSIWYG doesn't play a part
Hope that cleared that up
With regards to Nids and Eldars...hmm.. infiltrating autocannons will once again help you out there matey. 8 man, 4 autocannons, infiltrate (tank hunters if against eldar)...aah, my ass trembles with joy when i think about them.
Ah OK that clears it up, thanks Karmoon. Not sure what sounds better, "hidden genestealer" or "20 lives cultist". hehe I think I'll go with hidden genestealer to piss off my bug playing friend. I've actually been meaning to convert a squad of 10 possessed with talons and try them. If nothing else the squad should look cool, with a bunch of Tyranid rending claws on them.
Yea I can see how all those autocannons can leave a mark for an Eldar army. AP4 vs their majortiy 4 armor save, and wounding on 2s for the most part. To bad havocs can't carry reaper autocannons. Muwhahahaha
I found in my bits box 4 havocs. Three heavy bolters and 1 lascannon. I think I'll paint them up and toss in a couple of bolter boys and play with that until I get my AC havocs. Infiltrating 9, S5 shots sounds good to me. Should be a good troop killer.